特朗普称美仍向乌克兰共享情报,讨论俄乌能源停火与伊朗局势
Trump Says US Still Sharing Intelligence With Ukraine
Have we stopped sharing Intel with you? No we haven't. We have them, but we're really helping them get into a final answer. We want the warranties made here. We are helping them and we are sharing Intel. We want the war to end. So we're working with them and with Russia on getting the war to end. The president also saying that he believes both sides do want to see the war end. And when it comes to this energy cease fire that he announced the two sides had agreed to.
我们停止与你分享英特尔的消息了吗?没有。我们有他们,但我们正在真正帮助他们得出最终答案。我们希望这里能做出保证。我们在帮助他们,也在分享英特尔。我们希望战争结束。因此,我们正在与他们以及俄罗斯合作,促使战争结束。总统还表示,他认为双方都希望看到战争结束。至于他宣布的能源停火协议,双方已同意。
He said he'll let everyone know if Russia has broken it. So for more, we turn now to Kelly Grieco, senior fellow with the reimagining U.S. Grand Strategy Program at the Stimson Center, who is back with us once again here on Bloomberg TV and radio. Kelly, it's always good to have you on balance of power when we consider this, uh, energy cease fire that has been announced, whether or not it's been abided by. Can you just talk about how symmetrical it is on either side for Ukraine to with, uh, refrain from striking Russian energy infrastructure versus Russia making the same commitment when it comes to Ukraine.
他说,如果俄罗斯违反了协议,他会让所有人知道。更多详情,我们现在转向斯蒂尔森中心(Stimson Center)“重塑美国大战略计划”的高级研究员凯利·格里科(Kelly Grieco),她再次出现在彭博电视和广播中。凯利,当我们考虑这个宣布的能源停火协议是否被遵守时,在《权力平衡》节目中邀请你总是很好。你能谈谈乌克兰克制打击俄罗斯能源基础设施与俄罗斯在对乌克兰问题上做出同样承诺之间的对称性吗?
Yes. So first of all, thanks for having me. It's wonderful to be back. I would just say, you know, both sides are engaged in a war against energy infrastructure. Uh, and it's actually critical to both theory a victory long term. So for the Ukrainians, their course going after, uh, refineries and oil facilities in Russia, because that's what's generating a lot of the revenue that's financing the war. And that has started to have actual impact.
是的。首先,感谢邀请我。很高兴再次回来。我只想说,双方都在进行针对能源基础设施的战争。实际上,这对长期理论上的胜利至关重要。对于乌克兰人来说,他们的策略是攻击俄罗斯的炼油厂和石油设施,因为正是这些设施产生了大量为战争提供资金的收入。这已经开始产生实际影响。
We're seeing that there's something like a decrease around just under 20% and tax revenue, um, that is traditionally coming from the oil industry for Russia. So that's feeding the machine. But then on the other side, the Russians have been going after, uh, Ukrainian energy and electrical grids. And of course, not only does that have a humanitarian implication, but it also impacts the ability to keep production going, particularly defense production for the Ukrainians.
我们看到,来自传统上由石油行业提供的税收出现了大约略低于20%的下降,这是俄罗斯的税收。因此,这是在为战争机器供能。但另一方面,俄罗斯一直在攻击乌克兰的能源和电网。当然,这不仅具有人道主义影响,还影响了维持生产的能力,特别是乌克兰的国防生产。
So the question then would be with a cease fire, do they both benefit from a cease fire or does one side benefit asymmetrically? And I would say at this point, I think a cease fire in many respects favors the Russians more. I'm sorry Vega favors the Russians more than the Ukrainians. Um, in the sense that, uh, the Russians, especially if they're able to sell their oil, um, they can get this reserve, uh, you know, uh, cash from that, um, be able to increase production and then ultimately, you know, within maybe after the elections, return back to this long term, um, strike campaign.
那么问题就在于,如果停火,双方是否都从中受益,还是有一方获得了不对称的利益?我认为就目前而言,停火在许多方面对俄罗斯更有利。抱歉,Vega,停火对俄罗斯比乌克兰更有利。我的意思是,如果俄罗斯能够出售其石油,他们就能获得这笔储备资金,从而增加产量,并最终在选举后回到长期的打击行动。
So are we just cutting off Ukraine at the knees here by limiting their ability to strike at, uh, at these Russian refineries? Or is there is there another way for Ukraine to inflict damage on its enemy? Yeah. I mean, there's always other ways to inflict damage on your enemy. You know, for example, um, the Ukrainians, for example, haven't really gone after, uh, you know, as much airports, for example, to disrupt travel and things like that.
所以,我们是通过限制乌克兰打击俄罗斯炼油厂的能力,来切断乌克兰的退路吗?或者乌克兰还有其他方式可以对敌人造成损害?是的。我的意思是,总是有其他方法可以对敌人造成损害。例如,乌克兰人并没有真正去攻击机场,以破坏旅行等。
But there's nothing I would say that I can think of off the top of my head that can have the same potential impact as going after these refineries again, because this is where the revenues are often coming from to generate and feed the war machine. So it has a big impact, I would say, on Russia, on the Ukrainian, um, and particularly what their theory of victory is for trying to reduce some of the pressure on them and make this war less attractive to Putin.
但我想不出有什么能像再次打击这些炼油厂一样具有同等潜在影响的事情,因为战争机器的资金往往来自这里。所以我认为这对俄罗斯、乌克兰以及他们的胜利理论都有很大影响,试图减轻对他们的压力,并使这场战争对普京来说不那么有吸引力。
Well, you mentioned targeting airports, Kelly, and while we may not be seeing it in this conflict, we have seen in the Middle East the Houthis targeting Saudi Arabia's main airport in Riyadh and having some success, resulting in multiple fatalities and a number one, hundreds of injuries over the course of a series of days when it comes to this, uh, fight against the Houthis that Saudi and the Saudi led coalition in Yemen are conducting the U.S. to this point has not been participating.
凯利,你提到了针对机场的目标,虽然我们在这一冲突中可能没有看到这种情况,但在中东,我们看到胡塞武装袭击了沙特阿拉伯利雅得的主要机场并取得了一些成功,导致多人死亡和数百人受伤,这是在沙特及其领导的联盟在也门对抗胡塞武装的一系列行动中发生的。到目前为止,美国尚未参与。
And the president said on True Social today that, uh, he will not be doing anything until after the election, something he reiterated to reporters as he was getting on the helicopter. Just listen. It's behaving very badly and misbehaving very badly. No good. I don't know how it affects the election. I don't take that into account. I just know Iran will never have a weapon and that's now happen. They're never going to have a nuclear weapon.
总统今天在True Social上表示,他不会在选举前采取任何行动,他在登上直升机时向记者重申了这一点。只是听着。它表现得很糟糕,行为非常恶劣。不好。我不知道这如何影响选举。我不考虑这个因素。我只知道伊朗永远不会拥有武器,现在也不会。他们永远不会拥有核武器。
But, uh, the hoodie is our best behavior yet. I don't know, Kelly, if you would classify what has been happening as simple misbehavior. But what does it say about Saudi Arabia's capabilities with all of the advanced military technology that they have access to, including some of our own, that they are not able to fend off all of the attacks that the Houthis are conducting successfully? Yes. I mean, I think in fairness, though, uh, you know, you're right.
但是,嗯,连帽衫是我们迄今为止表现最好的行为。我不知道,凯利,你会不会把正在发生的事情归类为简单的不良行为。但考虑到沙特阿拉伯拥有所有先进的军事技术,包括我们的一些技术,他们却无法抵挡胡塞武装成功发动的所有攻击,这说明了什么?是的。我的意思是,我认为公平地说,嗯,你知道,你是对的。
The Saudis have advanced capabilities, many of them from us. Um, but that, you know, it's we can still see the Houthis are able to get things through. I would just say, in fairness to them, though, that the United States conducted a significant operation against the Houthis as well to try to protect, say, commercial shipping. Um, you know, in the Red sea for a time. And we were not successful either. Uh, what we're really seeing is that the who these in particular, they're really good at with these launchers.
沙特人拥有先进的能力,其中许多来自我们。嗯,但你知道,我们仍然可以看到胡塞武装能够突破防线。我只想说,为了公平起见,美国也对胡塞武装进行了一次重大行动,试图保护,比如说,商业航运。嗯,你知道,在红海一段时间内。而我们也没有成功。嗯,我们真正看到的是,这些人特别擅长使用这些发射器。
Um, hiding them, moving them really quickly. Uh, their practice for over a decade at this. And it makes it really hard to find them and destroy them, and they're able to ultimately get things through. And I think this is one of the reasons probably as well. The president is going to be very reluctant, uh, to get involved in this situation because he's learned already once how challenging this is. And of course, he's, as you noted earlier, very concerned about oil prices.
嗯,隐藏它们,快速移动它们。嗯,他们在这一点上已经 practice 了十多年。这使得找到并摧毁它们变得非常困难,他们最终能够突破防线。我认为这也是原因之一。总统将非常不愿意,嗯,卷入这种情况,因为他已经经历过一次,知道这有多具挑战性。当然,正如你 earlier 提到的,他对油价非常担忧。
Mhm. Interesting reporting by the Wall Street Journal today on what might come next. Uh, Kelly, the president has made clear no strikes against Iran until after the midterm elections. We've got another carrier strike group on the way. And now we read that with this, uh, free time on its hands, Tehran is busy fortifying defenses, rallying loyalists, threatening a wider, harsher response against the U.S. and its Gulf allies.
嗯。《华尔街日报》今天对接下来可能发生的情况进行了有趣的报道。嗯,凯利,总统明确表示,在中期选举之前不会对伊朗进行打击。我们又有另一支航母打击群在路上。现在我们读到,利用这段空闲时间,德黑兰正忙于加强防御,团结忠诚者,威胁对美国及其海湾盟友采取更广泛、更严厉的回应。
Satellite images show Iran strengthening sensitive locations, including nuclear sites in border areas, to make them more resilient to attacks. What's going to happen on November 4th? Yeah, I mean, the first thing I just say is that this, uh, you know, the president saying he's not going to do anything before the election. Okay, that might be true, but the adversary, Iran, may choose to do something before the election.
卫星图像显示,伊朗正在加强敏感地点,包括边境地区的核设施,使其更能抵御攻击。11月4日会发生什么?是的,我的意思是,我首先要说的是,总统说他不会在选举前做任何事情。好吧,这可能是真的,但对手伊朗可能会选择在选举前做点什么。
And I think you could make an argument that if you're sitting in Tehran and looking at this and hearing these kinds of comments, that in fact, you see that there's actually maybe good incentives here to actually escalate before the election and put even more pressure on the president. So I think that's something we should just be be very aware of is that this is dangerous. Um, you know, the potential for escalation here and the fact that you're reporting that they're, um, you know, reinforcing their defenses and getting ready for another round suggests that they're prepared to do this.
我认为你可以提出这样的论点:如果你坐在德黑兰,看着这一切并听到这类评论,你实际上会发现这里存在某种激励因素,促使你在选举前升级局势并对总统施加更大压力。因此,我认为我们应该对此保持高度警惕,因为这是危险的。嗯,你知道,这里的升级潜力,以及你报道他们正在加强防御并为下一轮行动做准备,这表明他们已经准备好这样做。
They're prepared to escalate, and, in fact, might think that it's quite likely. It's only a question of when does Iran have greater capability to escalate right now, despite all of the destruction that the US military wrought on Iran's military industrial complex, trying to take out, uh, the centers of this activity, are they still able to escalate in a way that the U.S. might be reluctant to? Given our own drawdowns of munitions?
他们已准备好升级,事实上可能认为这种情况相当可能发生。现在的问题是,尽管美国军事力量对伊朗的军工综合体造成了巨大破坏,试图摧毁这些活动的中心,伊朗是否仍能以美国可能不愿回应的方式升级?考虑到我们自身弹药储备的减少?
Yes they do. I mean, based on what we know in terms of open source information, um, about what they have in terms of capabilities, what it means is that during the course of the war, the United States buried a lot of the
是的,他们确实可以。我的意思是,基于我们在开源信息方面所了解的关于其能力的情报,这意味着在战争过程中,美国消耗了大量……
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