跳到主内容
@wquguru
精选88The Verge AI(RSS)行业动态多源精选 ×15

Anthropic IPO S-1深度解读:估值与AI经济模型

Anthropic is asking Wall Street to believe in AGI

原文
发到 X
推荐理由

Anthropic S-1是近期AI行业最大资本事件,SemiAnalysis的独家财务拆解揭示了前沿AI实验室的真实盈利逻辑与增长瓶颈,对判断行业格局极具参考价值。

Today on Decoder, I’m joined by Joey Brookhart, an analyst at the chip and AI research firm SemiAnalysis, to help me dig into the story inside the numbers of the Anthropic IPO filing — a document known as an S-1.

今天《解码者》节目,我邀请到了芯片与AI研究机构SemiAnalysis的分析师Joey Brookhart,与我一起深入挖掘Anthropic IPO文件——即一份被称为S-1的文件——背后的数字故事。

Anthropic just filed its S-1 to go public on the Nasdaq, and it could start trading as soon as next month at a valuation of anywhere between $1.5 trillion and $2 trillion. That would immediately make it one of the most valuable companies on the planet.

Anthropic刚刚提交了在纳斯达克上市的S-1文件,最快下个月就可能开始交易,估值介于1.5万亿美元至2万亿美元之间。这将立即使其成为地球上最有价值的公司之一。

But the price tag really isn’t the whole story here. The S-1 document published earlier this week is hundreds upon hundreds of pages filled with details that finally paint a picture of the economics of a frontier AI lab. As you might imagine, that picture is both really complicated and built on a series of very, very ambitious assumptions about the future and what AI will do to it.

但价格标签并不是这里的全部故事。本周早些时候公布的S-1文件长达数百页,其中充满了细节,终于勾勒出了前沿AI实验室经济状况的全貌。正如你所想的那样,这幅图景既非常复杂,又建立在对未来以及AI将如何影响未来的系列极其宏大的假设之上。

So I wanted to have Joey on the show to help break down what this document tells us, both about Anthropic’s finances and the broader AI economy. Joey and his colleagues at SemiAnalysis actually built a model of Anthropic’s finances from the outside back in July, so he’s been waiting for this filing about as eagerly as anyone, and I was excited to hear his take on what we’ve learned and, importantly, what we still don’t know.

因此,我想请Joey来到节目中,帮助我们解读这份文件所揭示的信息,包括关于Anthropic的财务状况以及更广泛的AI经济。Joey及其同事早在今年7月就从外部构建了Anthropic的财务模型,所以他一直像其他人一样急切地等待这份文件的提交,我很期待听到他对我们要了解的内容以及更重要的是我们仍不了解的内容的看法。

Okay: SemiAnalysis’ Joey Brookhart on the Anthropic S-1 and the costs and risks of building frontier AI. Here we go.

好的:SemiAnalysis的Joey Brookhart谈Anthropic的S-1文件以及构建前沿AI的成本和风险。我们开始吧。

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.

本次访谈已根据篇幅和清晰度进行了轻微编辑。

Joey Brookhart, you are an analyst at SemiAnalysis. You’re also co-lead on SemiAnalysis’ Tokenomics model, which is going to come up a lot in this episode. Welcome to Decoder.

Joey Brookhart,你是SemiAnalysis的分析师。你同时也是SemiAnalysis Tokenomics模型的联合负责人,该模型将在本集中频繁出现。欢迎做客《解码者》。

Yeah, thanks so much, Nilay.

是的,非常感谢,Nilay。

I am very excited to talk to you. We’re talking just a couple days after the big Anthropic S-1 was filed. It’s our first look inside of the finances of one of the leading frontier models. What’s your take? What’s your read into it?

我非常兴奋地与你交谈。就在Anthropic重磅S-1文件提交后的几天内,这是我们首次深入了解领先前沿模型之一的财务状况。你的看法是什么?你对它的解读是怎样的?

It was an awesome S-1. It’s been a rough three weeks since the investor day. Some people were somewhat disappointed in the September [annualized recurring revenue] numbers, but what we saw here was a company that has efficiently scaled to an amazing level, with a $1 trillion-plus valuation, $70 billion-plus of ARR in a very short amount of time.

这是一份很棒的S-1文件。自投资者日以来已经过去了艰难的三周。一些人对9月的(年化经常性收入)数据感到有些失望,但我们在这里看到的是一家公司在极短时间内高效扩张至惊人水平的公司,拥有超过1万亿美元的估值和超过700亿美元的ARR。

In gross margins, compute margins, and free cash flow, everything is what you’d want to see. So I don’t think there was much to nitpick in this filing. It’s the reason you’ve seen a lot of the semiconductor complex, and the neoclouds and compute stocks, really rally again in the last two days.

在毛利率、计算业务利润率以及自由现金流方面,各项指标都符合预期。因此,我认为这份文件没什么可挑剔的地方。这也是过去两天半导体板块、新云服务和算力股再度大幅反弹的原因。

It’s funny, I don’t think I can nitpick the S-1 itself. I want to get into some of the details because there are a lot of numbers in there that are worth thinking about. I actually just want to start at the really big picture. You run a thing called Tokenomics. I’m going to explain what Tokenomics is to people.

有趣的是,我觉得很难对S-1招股书本身挑出毛病。我想深入探讨一些细节,因为其中有很多值得深思的数据。我其实想先从宏观大局入手。你们有一个叫作“Tokenomics”(代币经济学)的项目,我来向大家解释一下什么是Tokenomics。

I look at Anthropic and where it could go. I look at Dario Amodei saying that he can see his way to $1 trillion in revenue. Where does that money come from? Because so much of these businesses are about eating every other business and it feels like someone else has to make some money to pay Anthropic to generate these revenues. I haven’t actually seen that laid out very clearly.

我审视了Anthropic及其潜在发展空间。我看到Dario Amodei表示他能看到其收入达到1万亿美元的路径。这笔钱从何而来?因为这些企业大多致力于吞噬其他所有业务,感觉似乎需要其他方赚取利润,才能向Anthropic支付费用以产生这些收入。但我实际上并未看到这一逻辑被清晰阐述。

Verge subscribers, don’t forget you get exclusive access to ad-free Decoder wherever you get your podcasts. Head here. Not a subscriber? You can sign up here.

Verge订阅用户别忘了,您可以在收听播客的任何地方享受无广告的Decoder独家内容。点击此处。尚未订阅?您可以在此注册。

It’s so interesting. Today, because even the scale we’re at is $120 billion of ARR between the two leading labs, it’s still an extremely narrow market. The top 1 percent of customers are the ones that are spending $50,000 to $100,000 per employee. Your broader Fortune 500 or Global 2000, which typically do a lot of IT spend, isn’t spending much.

这非常有趣。即便目前两家头部实验室的年度经常性收入(ARR)合计已达1200亿美元,市场依然极其狭窄。前1%的客户是那些每位员工支出5万至10万美元的企业。而通常IT支出较多的更广泛的财富500强或全球2000强企业,支出却并不多。

A lot of the spending, especially at Anthropic, is coding-specific. It’s almost a single vertical company. We look in the future to 2027, you think to this broader adoption and white collar work. This typical enterprise Q4 budgeting season, we actually haven’t gone through with one of these labs yet in any meaningful way because their ARR did really start to accelerate until the beginning of the year. We think of other cases like cyber, which can be similar to coding, where these are eight-figure-plus contracts with leading enterprises that can scale very quickly due to all the cybersecurity incidents we’re seeing. You get to other verticals like bio.

大量支出,尤其是在Anthropic,具有编程特定性。它几乎是一家单一垂直领域的公司。展望未来至2027年,我们关注的是更广泛的采用和白领工作。典型的第四季度企业预算季,我们实际上还未与任何一家实验室进行有意义的合作,因为其ARR直到年初才开始真正加速。我们考虑其他案例,如网络安全,它与编程类似,涉及与领先企业签订的八位数以上合同,由于我们目睹的所有网络安全事件,这类合同可以迅速扩展。此外还有其他垂直领域,如生物领域。

To get to $1 trillion, we do have to move to some of that white collar work, where it goes from AI augmentation to labor saving or replacement in some areas. You look at things like Microsoft’s buyout offers to employees as an example of this, but there’s no wealth of other verticals that they can get into and really start to move the needle.

要达到1万亿美元的目标,我们必须转向部分白领工作领域,在那里,AI将从增强能力转变为在某些领域节省劳动力或替代人力。例如微软向员工提供的收购要约就是一个例子,但目前缺乏其他丰富的垂直领域可供切入并真正推动增长。

This is the single biggest question I have, not just about the S-1, but the entire industry. I would understand that if there are one or two leading labs. There are two big companies that have a technology that can automate a whole bunch of things. We will see how well that automation goes sector by sector, but there are not just two leading labs. There are quite a few of them. There are open weight models.

这是我目前最大的疑问,不仅针对 S-1 文件,而是整个行业。如果只有一两家领先的实验室,我还能理解。有两家大公司拥有能够自动化大量工作的技术。我们将看到这种自动化在各细分领域的表现如何,但领先的不只是两家实验室,还有不少。此外还有开源权重模型。

I’ve heard from a lot of CEOs who are very nervous about giving all their data to an OpenAI or Anthropic and they would like to run some things on-prem. There are law firms running on-prem AI now, which is the funniest turn in maybe all of history.

我听很多 CEO 说,他们非常担心把所有数据交给 OpenAI 或 Anthropic,因此希望在本企业本地部署运行一些应用。现在已有律师事务所在使用本地部署的 AI,这可能是历史上最有趣的一幕。

How do you see that playing out? Because so much of the pressure on this S-1 was the numbers themselves, which I want to talk about, but then there’s the external pressure of, “You’ve got to grow and growth is not as short.” So how do you see all of that playing out?

你认为这会如何发展?因为这份 S-1 文件带来的压力很大程度上来自其财务数据本身,我想就此展开讨论,但与此同时还有外部压力:“你必须增长,而且增长速度不能放缓。”那么你认为所有这些情况将如何演变?

It’s very interesting because when we look at coding today, for example — and I think we saw this in Q3 with OpenAI kind of catching up — there are areas of coding where there are very low switching costs, and I can just move between that. What we hear from enterprises and maybe, too, on the OpenAI side — obviously I think they somewhat botched the Fable release, and the lack of zero data retention is why we saw some of the slowdown. That’s something they can fix with Fable 5.5 and maybe drive more enterprise adoption there.

这非常有趣,比如当我们审视今天的编程领域——我认为我们在第三季度看到了 OpenAI 正在迎头赶上——在编程的某些领域,切换成本非常低,我可以轻松地在不同平台间迁移。我们从企业端以及可能从 OpenAI 那边听到的反馈是——显然我认为他们在 Fable 发布上有些搞砸了,而缺乏零数据保留功能正是我们观察到部分增速放缓的原因。这是他们可以通过 Fable 5.5 修复的问题,并可能借此推动更多的企业采用。

That’s a huge thing for enterprises when we talk with them. We definitely see enterprises now, and more so, too, a lot of the AI natives, doing custom training and post-training on open weight models, and then running either their inference off of that or even their products for internal or external use cases.

这对企业来说是一个巨大的因素,我们在与他们交流时深有体会。我们确实看到企业,以及越来越多的 AI 原生公司,正在对开源权重模型进行定制训练和后置训练,然后基于这些模型运行推理服务,甚至将其用于内部或外部的产品用例。

Obviously, DeepMind at Google and [Meta Superintelligence Labs] are very well-funded labs that have pretty similar training compute capacity, and they’re bringing on a ton of it. Not even to mention SpaceX as well, with what Elon said on [about] 10 net new gigawatts next year and half of that is the long-term internal use case.

显然,Google 旗下的 DeepMind 和 [Meta Superintelligence Labs] 都是资金雄厚的实验室,拥有非常相似的训练算力规模,并且正在大规模扩充。更不用说 SpaceX 了,根据 Elon 的说法,明年将有约 10 吉瓦的净新增算力,其中一半将用于长期的内部用例。

In the first half of the year, Anthropic ran away with it. They were 90 percent of the industry’s net new ARR. We saw in Q3 that OpenAI was probably actually the majority of industry net new ARR. Open-source has grown from probably $1 billion of token inference costs, ARR, in Q1 to $10 billion-plus here in Q3.

在今年上半年,Anthropic 遥遥领先,占据了行业新增年度经常性收入(ARR)的 90%。我们在第三季度看到,OpenAI 可能实际上占据了行业新增 ARR 的大部分。开源领域的 token 推理成本 ARR 已从第一季度的约 10 亿美元增长到第三季度的超过 100 亿美元。

So yes, the industry’s gotten much more competitive, but there are all these new use cases, too, and some of these verticalized use cases are really where we’re going to see the growth going forward. Because it’s obvious coding isn’t going to power us to even triple from here.

所以是的,行业变得更具竞争力了,但同时也出现了所有这些新的用例,其中一些垂直化的用例确实是我们未来看到增长的关键所在。因为很明显,仅靠编码无法让我们从现在的基础上实现三倍的增长。

It’s interesting. The concept is called Tokenomics. You run that practice alongside another co-lead at SemiAnalysis. Explain what it is because to me it’s such a smart way of thinking about, “We’re going to put some money in and maybe we’ll get some money out.”

这很有趣。这个概念被称为“代币经济学”(Tokenomics)。你与SemiAnalysis的另一位联合负责人共同运营这一实践。请解释一下它是什么,因为在我看来,这是一种非常聪明的思维方式,即‘我们投入一些资金,也许能收回一些资金’。

I think of it as the unit economics [of AI], or even just the broader idea — everything from a macro- to microeconomics of running an AI business or even looking at AI demand. So we cover the hyperscalers, now some of the neoclouds as well in a separate product.

我将其视为AI的单位经济模型[unit economics],或者更广泛地说,是涵盖从宏观到微观的所有理念——无论是运营AI业务的宏观经济与微观经济,还是审视AI需求。因此,我们涵盖了超大规模云服务商(hyperscalers),现在也在一个独立产品中涵盖了一些新兴云服务商(neoclouds)。

更进一步:量化金融体系

看懂新闻只是起点——沿量化金融路径,把它变成能交付的工程能力

进入量化体系 →

关联讨论

同一事件的更多信源

相似阅读

关联信息,但可能不是同一事件