特朗普委内瑞拉石油协议细节模糊,1000亿美元缺口待解
Trump’s Venezuela Deal Leaves $100 Billion Question Unanswered
涉及地缘政治变动下的能源供应链潜在重构,虽细节模糊但影响面大,建议关注后续政策落地及跨国油企动向。
There isn't a whole lot of information, and there's not a whole lot of clarity about what is going on here. Um, there are bunch of different conflicting reports. In fact, um, the best bit that I've been able to to really understand is that it seems that the US is going to take a 35% passive stake in a private company that is run by a Venezuelan who has, uh, done some deals for oil, uh, in Venezuela before. Um, and then ultimately that would give them preferential rights to buy about 20% of the production, um, that comes from these investments at cost.
目前信息并不多,关于这里到底发生了什么也缺乏清晰的说明。嗯,存在大量相互矛盾的报道。事实上,据我所能理解到的最佳情况是,美国似乎将持有由一名委内瑞拉人运营的私营公司35%的被动股权,该委内瑞拉人此前曾在委内瑞拉进行过一些石油交易。嗯,最终这将使他们以成本价优先购买来自这些投资约20%产量的权利。
Uh, now, when the government is doing this, what is it? Uh, it seems as though this is coming from the Pentagon's office of Strategic Capital. Um, which means it's a little unclear. Does that mean that the Pentagon is purchasing the oil for the the armed forces? We really have no idea. Um, but that seems to be the most information we have right now. Um, does it mean that the United States is seizing Venezuela's oil, uh, fields?
嗯,现在,当政府这样做时,这究竟意味着什么?嗯,看起来这来自五角大楼的战略资本办公室(Office of Strategic Capital)。嗯,这意味着情况有点不清楚。这是否意味着五角大楼正在为武装部队购买石油?我们真的不知道。嗯,但这似乎是我们要目前拥有的最多信息了。嗯,这是否意味着美国正在没收委内瑞拉的油田?
No, no, it does not. Uh, it doesn't seem to mean that at all. Um, it does seem to mean that there will be some sort of U.S. investment in foreign oil fields, which is, I would say, it's not a new concept. This was definitely something that was floated in the 1940s. In 1943, actually, President Franklin Roosevelt, uh, wanted to buy, uh, a stake in Saudi Arabia's, uh, oil field from Aramco. Uh, they didn't end up doing that, mostly because, um, the companies that owned it didn't like the price.
不,不,并不是这样。嗯,看起来完全不是那个意思。嗯,它似乎意味着将在外国油田进行某种形式的美国投资,我认为这并不是一个新概念。这肯定是在20世纪40年代曾提出过的想法。实际上,在1943年,富兰克林·罗斯福总统曾想从阿美石油公司(Aramco)购买沙特阿拉伯油田的股份。嗯,他们最终没有这么做,主要是因为拥有该公司的公司不喜欢这个价格。
Uh, they wanted more money. Right. But, um, so I'm not saying it's without precedent, but it's certainly not something that has been done. Okay, so President Trump said that this deal had been reached with Chelsea Rodriguez. She is the interim president of Venezuela. And maybe that raises a lot of questions, because interim president means there might be a more permanent president later on who can then turn around and unravel whatever deal um, Trump and Rodriguez has put together.
嗯,他们想要更多的钱。没错。但是,嗯,所以我不是说这是没有先例的,但确实从未有过这样的做法。好的,所以特朗普总统表示,这项协议已与切尔西·罗德里格斯(Chelsea Rodriguez)达成。她是委内瑞拉的临时总统。而这可能会引发许多问题,因为“临时总统”意味着未来可能会有更正式的总统上任,然后可以推翻特朗普和罗德里格斯达成的任何协议。
And we've seen that in the past. There has been this history of, um, foreign oil companies, U.S. and European operators, uh, seeing their assets seized and nationalized during previous times, like in the 2000. Exactly. And this is one of the major hurdles. Um, I would say it's it's probably the biggest hurdle to getting, uh, foreign oil companies and foreign capital invested and interested in producing, uh, Venezuelan oil.
我们在过去已经见过这种情况。历史上,外国石油公司、美国和欧洲的运营商曾目睹其资产在以往时期(如2000年左右)被没收和国有化。确实如此。这也是主要障碍之一。嗯,我认为这可能是让外国石油公司和外国资本投资并有兴趣生产委内瑞拉石油的最大障碍。
The second is Venezuela's oil itself is very difficult and costly to produce, but you definitely see people more interested. If there wasn't this long history of the Venezuelan government basically either not honouring contracts, changing the terms or outright nationalizing, um, you know, property and things from these former companies, including Chevron and Exxon and other major, uh, international oil companies that do have the expertise and the knowledge and the money to really go in and do this kind of work in Venezuela.
第二点是委内瑞拉的石油本身开采难度很大且成本高昂,但你确实能看到人们对此更感兴趣。如果没有委内瑞拉政府长期以来基本上不履行合同、更改条款或直接国有化这些前公司(包括雪佛龙和埃克森美孚以及其他拥有专业知识、知识和资金来在委内瑞拉开展此类工作的主要国际石油公司)的财产等行为的这段历史,情况就不会如此。
So, um, so this is absolutely an issue. It's also seems could potentially be in contradiction to the Venezuelan constitution. Um, it depends, I think, whether or not this is viewed as ownership over Venezuelan resources. Uh, I'm sure Jose Rodriguez would argue it's not. But, um, of course that depends. Is she really going to have the final say here. How much control does she really have and can she maintain that control?
所以,这绝对是一个问题。这也似乎可能与委内瑞拉宪法相矛盾。嗯,我认为这取决于这是否被视为对委内瑞拉资源的所有权。我确信何塞·罗德里格斯会争辩说不是。但是,当然这取决于实际情况。她真的在这里有最终决定权吗?她真正拥有多少控制权,以及她能维持这种控制吗?
Is the US willing to back her her control. So it's all kind of entwined in the politics of it. The other issue is that she's basically basing this on we're going to see concrete benefits for our country from this deal. And that's very unlikely to happen in the short term because these are oilfield, some of which have not been previously developed. And so it's going to take a long time to actually bring that oil to market.
美国愿意支持她的控制权吗?所以这一切都交织在其中的政治因素里。另一个问题是,她基本上是基于“我们将从这个协议中为我们的国家看到切实利益”这一前提。而这在短期内几乎不可能发生,因为这些是油田,其中一些此前尚未开发。因此,将石油实际推向市场需要很长时间。
Ellen, what has been the history with Chevron in Venezuela? Have they been investing capital? Do they have they said they will invest more capital. Uh, because I just feel like a lot of these oil companies have stayed away from this part of the world. Well, Chevron has been invested in Venezuela for a very long time. In fact, um, you know, during the Chavez era, that was when, uh, things began to get even more, uh, nationalized.
艾伦,雪佛龙在委内瑞拉的历史是怎样的?他们一直在投资资本吗?他们说他们将投入更多资本。嗯,因为我觉得很多石油公司都避开了这个世界的一部分。好吧,雪佛龙在委内瑞拉的投资已经持续了很长时间。事实上,嗯,你知道,在查韦斯时代,那时事情开始变得更加国有化。
And so Chavez basically kind of turned the tables and said, look, you've got to, um, you know, follow these new terms that I'm laying out if you want to continue to produce here. And some companies like Exxon were like, that's it. We're out or we're going, we're just going to cut our losses. Chevron, uh, actually did stay for quite a while until, uh, they were more recently kind of forced out, um, you know, by sanctions.
所以查韦斯基本上扭转了局面,说:看,如果你想继续在这里生产,你必须遵循我提出的这些新条款。像埃克森这样的公司就说:就这样吧。我们撤出,或者我们只是去削减损失。雪佛龙实际上坚持了相当长的一段时间,直到最近才因制裁而被迫退出。
The U.S. government imposed sanctions on Venezuela. Uh, you know, years ago. And then they basically had to leave, and they've only been allowed to get oil according to any kind of sanctions waivers or special licenses from the government. So while Chevron, I think, would like to at the very least recoup its losses from Venezuela. They're still quite hesitant, I think, and they're still looking for assurances that if they do invest more time, money into Venezuelan, Venezuela's oil, that, um, you know, they're not going to experience losses from it again in the long run.
美国政府多年前就对委内瑞拉实施了制裁。你知道,他们基本上被迫撤出,此后只有在获得政府颁发的制裁豁免或特别许可证的情况下,才被允许开采石油。因此,我认为雪佛龙公司至少希望能收回在委内瑞拉的损失。但我认为他们仍然相当犹豫,并且仍在寻求保证,以确保如果他们投入更多时间和资金到委内瑞拉的石油领域,长远来看不会再次遭受损失。
Venezuela's oil resources are valuable and will be valuable to develop. The world does need this oil, but a company would look at that and say, this is basically like the last oil. I'm going to want to go in and develop without some kind of political and economic and financial assurance from the US government.
委内瑞拉的石油资源具有价值,且开发后也将极具价值。世界确实需要这些石油,但一家公司会审视这一情况并认为,这基本上就像是最后的石油了。如果没有来自美国政府的某种政治、经济和金融方面的保证,我不会愿意进入并开发它。
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