特朗普拒绝伊朗停火方案拟11月后重启轰炸
Iran War Endgame Still Elusive
涉及重大地缘政治决策与潜在军事升级,直接影响霍尔木兹海峡航运及全球能源供应链预期,宏观交易者需重点关注后续政策落地风险。
Overnight, the Wall Street Journal reported president Trump has rejected the latest proposal aimed at resolving the Iran war and reopening the Strait Of Hormuz. US officials telling the journal that Trump has said it's planned to resume bombing in Iran after the midterm elections in November. We spoke with Dina Esfandiary, Bloomberg's Mideast geoeconomics lead about the next phase of the conflict, what it could look like, and why a solution won't be easy to find.
《华尔街日报》 overnight 报道称,特朗普总统拒绝了旨在解决伊朗战争并重新开放霍尔木兹海峡的最新提案。美国官员告诉该报,特朗普表示计划在11月中期选举后恢复对伊朗的轰炸。我们与彭博社中东地缘经济负责人迪娜·伊斯凡迪亚里(Dina Esfandiary)探讨了冲突的下一阶段可能呈现何种面貌,以及为何解决方案不易找到。
Internally inside Iran, there's a real debate going on about whether they're making too many concessions, whether they're giving up too much. Because from their perspective, the Strait Of Hormuz is a strategic gain. So there really has to be a recognition of Iran's control over the Strait, which, of course, is exactly what's making The US bulk. So it really remains to be seen if we even get there. You've also said that you think a lot of the leadership in Iran right now believes that the Trump administration is only going to respond to threats and escalations.
在伊朗内部,关于他们是否做出了过多让步、是否放弃太多的争论正在激烈进行。因为从他们的角度来看,霍尔木兹海峡是一个战略收益。因此,必须承认伊朗对该海峡的控制权,而这恰恰是让美国感到恼火的原因。所以,我们是否真能走到那一步仍有待观察。你还提到,你认为目前伊朗的大多数领导层相信,特朗普政府只会对威胁和升级做出反应。
And they've said pretty openly that they are more sensitive, that they believe Trump is more sensitive to this war leading up to the midterms. And are they trying to use that as leverage? Absolutely. I think I think most importantly, they believe that if they are to escalate, they have to do it before the midterms because of the reason that you outlined, that Trump is more sensitive to that pressure. I think that's a little bit of misreading on Iran's part, though.
他们相当公开地表示,自己更为敏感,认为特朗普在中期选举前对这场战争更为敏感。他们是否在试图利用这一点作为筹码?绝对如此。我认为最重要的是,他们相信如果要升级局势,必须在中期选举之前进行,原因正如你所指出的,即特朗普对这种压力更为敏感。不过,我认为这是伊朗方面的一种误判。
President Trump has indicated that he doesn't really care about the midterm elections, And there's a lot of rumors floating around also that post the midterms, he'll feel even more unconstrained, and so maybe he'll escalate then. So I think on the Iranian side, what they're trying to do is really figure out if they need to preempt that American escalation or if they need to double down and really try to extract as much as possible from The United States in the lead up to the elections.
特朗普总统曾表示,他并不太在意中期选举。此外,坊间还流传着许多传闻,称中期选举后他会感到更加不受约束,从而可能在那时升级局势。因此,我认为伊朗方面真正想做的是弄清楚:他们是否需要先发制人地阻止美国的升级行动,还是应该加倍努力,在选举前夕尽可能地从美国身上榨取更多利益。
And I think right now the jury's out. That debate is really active. It's really vocal, but they don't seem to have made a decision, really. We just finished the UN General Assembly. Netanyahu made an incredibly fiery speech, at UNGA. It was basically an enemies list, naming everyone from, The United Kingdom to the mayor of New York as people who kind of had it out for Israel. Is there any indication, any willingness on behalf of Israel to play ball here or abide by any kind of agreement?
我认为目前情况尚不明朗。这场辩论非常活跃,也非常激烈,但他们似乎尚未做出最终决定。我们刚刚结束联合国大会。内塔尼亚胡在联大上发表了一场极具煽动性的演讲,基本上是一份“敌人名单”,点名了从英国到纽约市长等所有与以色列有矛盾的人。以色列方面是否有任何迹象或意愿在此问题上合作,或遵守任何形式的协议?
Honestly, the short answer to that is absolutely not. Every indication coming out of Israel shows that that, actually, they want to double down. They want to continue the wars in their backyard because from their perspective, those are now important Israeli foreign policy issues. It it they don't see the war in Lebanon or the war in Gaza as a part of the Iran conflict. They see it as separate, actually, much like the Houthis in Yemen see their war as separate from the Iran war.
老实说,对此的简短回答是绝对不行。来自以色列的所有迹象表明,他们实际上想要变本加厉。他们希望继续在其后院进行战争,因为从他们的角度来看,这些现在已成为重要的以色列外交政策议题。在他们看来,黎巴嫩战争或加沙战争并非伊朗冲突的一部分。他们认为这是独立的,实际上,也正如也门胡塞武装将其战争视为与伊朗战争独立一样。
We tend to group them into one and see them as different fronts of the Iran war, but they certainly don't. That means that this is gonna be a huge sticking point. It was a sticking point in the first MOU. It's definitely gonna be a sticking point in this MOU, this deal because, president Trump has pressure. He can exert pressure on Israel. But at the end of the day, it really is gonna be down to the Israelis whether they want to listen to it or not.
我们倾向于将它们归为一类,并视为伊朗战争的不同战线,但他们 certainly 不这么认为。这意味着这将成为一个巨大的棘手问题。这在第一份谅解备忘录(MOU)中就是一个棘手问题。在这份谅解备忘录、这项协议中,它肯定也会成为一个棘手问题,因为特朗普总统施加了压力。他可以对以色列施加压力。但最终,这真的取决于以色列人是否愿意听从。
And what's more, the Israelis are preparing for their own elections. I was just gonna say all politics are local in Netanyahu. That seemed like a domestic speech more that more so than an international speech almost. Absolutely. Absolutely. They're preparing for their own elections. They're worried about their own domestic issues. They're they're, you know, playing the political game internally. And I don't think it would look good for any candidate domestically if they suddenly turned around and walked away from Lebanon and Gaza.
而且,以色列人正在为自身的选举做准备。我刚才想说,内塔尼亚胡的所有政治行为都是地方性的。这看起来更像是一场国内演讲,而非国际演讲。完全正确。完全正确。他们正在为自身的选举做准备。他们担心的是自身的国内问题。你知道的,他们在内部进行政治博弈。我认为,如果任何候选人突然掉头离开黎巴嫩和加沙,在国内形象都不会好看。
I just don't think that this is something that Israel wants. Alright. Speaking of domestic politics, you've written recently about what the potential endgame could be for Iran. And you see you you kinda lay out three scenarios as to where this could go based on who's in leadership right now and kind of the different political factors. Can you walk us through what you see as the most likely scenarios? Our base case scenario right now is that we find ourselves in a protracted war.
我只是认为这不是以色列所希望的。好吧。说到国内政治,你最近写过关于伊朗潜在结局可能是什么的内容。你大致列出了三种情景,基于当前的领导层以及不同的政治因素,事态可能走向何方。你能向我们介绍你认为最有可能的情景吗?我们目前的基本情景是,我们发现自己陷入了一场旷日持久的战争。
Now what does that look like? It looks like cycles of escalation punctuated by pauses in the fighting where each side regroups and rearms and really prepares for the next round, so, like, strategizes for the next round. That doesn't augur anything good for the region nor for the global economy, really. I think disruption in regional waterways is going to continue for the foreseeable future. It's likely to have more impact in the Strait Of Hormuz than in the Red Sea because the Red Sea has already been affected by the Houthi maritime campaign last year.
那么这看起来是什么样的呢?它表现为升级的循环,其间穿插着战斗暂停期,各方利用这些时间重新集结、补充军备,并为下一轮冲突做好充分准备,也就是为下一轮进行战略谋划。这对该地区乃至全球经济而言都绝非吉兆。我认为,在可预见的未来,区域水道的中断状况将持续存在。其影响很可能在霍尔木兹海峡比在红海更大,因为红海去年已经受到胡塞武装海上行动的影响。
But freedom of navigation is a thing of the past in those waterways. I don't think we're gonna come back to it. It's also intended to keep The US kind of stuck in its in its campaign to get oil through the Strait, which is gonna be a very costly endeavor for Washington. And finally, it deprives the Gulf Arab states of the most important thing, which is a return to a normal state of affairs that would allow them to kind of rebuild infrastructure that was affected, that would allow their economies to get back on track, and really for them to get back on their feet.
但在那些水道中,航行自由已成为过去式。我不认为我们会回到那种状态。此举也旨在让美国陷入其通过海峡输送石油的行动中难以脱身,这对华盛顿来说将是一项代价高昂的事业。最后,它剥夺了海湾阿拉伯国家最宝贵的东西,即恢复常态,从而使其能够重建受损的基础设施,使经济重回正轨,并真正帮助它们站稳脚跟。
That's all of the things that are not going to happen in the next few months. That's why there was some reporting out in the Wall Street Journal this week saying, essentially, Gulf allies don't want The US to give any inch on Iran. They would rather continue this conflict than than not take a hard line against Iran. I wanted to ask you about that because that goes counter to my own reporting, what I heard with Gulf leaders as I was speaking to them at the UN this week.
这些都是未来几个月内不会发生的事情。这就是为什么《华尔街日报》本周有报道称,本质上说,海湾盟友不希望美国在对伊朗问题上做出任何让步。他们宁愿继续这场冲突,也不愿对伊朗采取强硬立场。我想就此向你请教,因为这与我自己的报道相悖——我在本周于联合国与海湾领导人交谈时听到的情况并非如此。
Does that track with what you're hearing? Actually, what I'm hearing tracks with what you're reporting. Okay. Alright. We'll we'll go there then. Yeah. Absolutely. It from my perspective, it looks like actually the Gulf Arab states are putting whatever pressure they have at their disposal without actually escalating to to use using financial means to pressure the But everything else, diplomacy, you know, really insisting and ensuring that The US kind of walks away or, at the very least, doesn't escalate in this conflict.
这与你的听闻一致吗?实际上,我听到的与你报道的一致。好的。好吧,那我们接着聊。是的。绝对如此。从我的角度来看,实际情况是,海湾阿拉伯国家正在动用其手中的一切施压手段,但并未实际升级到使用金融手段来施压。至于其他方面,如外交,你知道的,他们坚持并确保美国要么退出,或者至少不要在这场冲突中进一步升级。
Now they understand that that would leave them in a vulnerable position, but war for them is their worst worst case scenario. I mean, Iran striking at their facilities is the worst thing that could happen to them. Now that's not to say that there aren't elements within the Gulf Arab states who actually probably would want this war to continue and the US to finish this war. But, generally, based on my conversations, they're adamant that they want this to end, and they're adamant that they want to deal with the Iranians in such a way as to incentivize them not to target them in future rounds.
现在他们明白,那样做会使自己处于脆弱的境地,但对他们而言,战争是最糟糕的糟糕情况。我的意思是,伊朗袭击他们的设施是对他们最不利的事情。这并不是说海湾阿拉伯国家内部没有某些势力实际上可能希望这场战争继续下去,并希望美国完成这场战争。但一般来说,根据我的交谈,他们坚决希望此事结束,并且他们坚决希望通过某种方式与伊朗人打交道,以激励他们在未来的轮次中不要针对他们。
Right. It's important to remember that it's not a monolith. There are different countries with different priorities. But, yes, I most of the folks I've talked to recently this week seem to be working very hard behind the scenes to try to quell this exactly what you're just saying. Before I let you go, I do also wanna ask you about these airplane flight sanctions that the treasury department put into place. How big of a deal is this, and what is the goal here?
没错。重要的是要记住,这并非铁板一块。存在不同国家和不同的优先事项。但是,是的,我本周最近接触的大多数人似乎都在幕后非常努力地试图平息正如你刚才所说的那种情况。在我让你离开之前,我还想问你关于财政部实施的飞机航班制裁的事。这件事有多大影响?这里的目标是什么?
Is it really impacting commerce for Iran, or is it antagonizing the population and and fomenting disruption and malcontent within the state at the government? So I struggle to understand or to see what the goal is. What I do know is that the result is that it effectively cuts the Iranian population off from the rest of the world, from their fam
它真的在影响伊朗的商业活动吗?还是在激怒民众,并在国家内部煽动动荡和不满情绪?因此,我难以理解或看清其目标是什么。我所知道的是,结果是它有效地将伊朗人民与世界其他地区隔绝开来,使他们无法与家人联系。
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