北约秘书长鲁特：特朗普促使北约更强大

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Following his meeting moments ago in the Oval Office with President Trump is NATO's Secretary General Mark Rutte. Mr. Secretary General, welcome back to Bloomberg TV and radio. It means a lot to us to take your time on what I know is a very busy day. Absolutely. We saw you in there. We were watching the whole back and forth with yourself, the president, and a gaggle of reporters in the Oval Office. You had everything from whiteboards to stats to make the argument to President Trump.

Did you manage to soften some of the edges when it comes to Trump and the alliance?

Well, I mean, what I think is important is to be fair. And and and fairness dictates that this president is really doing a huge amount of work to get NATO in better shape. He had a big success last year in The Hague with the 5% spending commitment. But what I wanted to show to him tonight is that over the last 10 years, since Trump 45 and now Trump 47, we see the staggering increase on European and Canadian allies spending more.

But also, when it comes to the year-on-year increase, Trump 47 in 2025, almost 20% more spending. Which is, of course, because of Russia and the threat and the war in Ukraine. But also very much because this president is is quite forcefully encouraging allies to spend more. And I think it is fair to share that with him.

Well, and Mr. Secretary General, it's not just the president, it's others in his administration as well. The Defense Secretary Pete Hoekstra said in Brussels recently that the US would stop paying NATO dues if the allies don't meet defense spending targets. In your understanding, is this just the long-term 5% target that matters, or has has this administration set out to you that there needs to be more interim goals met in the short term?

Well, what we are seeing already is Mr. almost 20% increase that you are reaching the max in terms of absorption capacity. You can only each year on year spend so much more because you have to find and hire and contract the men and women in uniform and obviously you have to work very hard and the US is doing that, Europe is doing that on expanding the output of the defense industry your base without which at the moment on both sides of the Atlantic is simply not producing enough.

So the president is now meeting with the bosses of the big defense industrial companies in the United States to again make that argument. Um but then given that background spending almost 20% more means that he not only got a promise in The Hague but that allies are now delivering. Take Germany spending twice as much in 2029 than they did in 2021. More than 150 billion by 2029. These are really big numbers and a great success.

I want to ask you about Ukraine uh Secretary General and what you heard from President Trump today. It was shocking for a lot of people to see massive black clouds of smoke pluming over St. Petersburg. We know that Ukraine is reaching deeper into Russian territory and making remarkably use of its advanced drone technology. Does President Trump believe Ukraine can win this war militarily?

Well, let me not speak for President Trump because I think he should do that himself but obviously we discussed Ukraine and you heard this also in the public part of the meeting with the media in the Oval Office that he acknowledged that Ukraine is doing well on the battlefield uh is doing well [clears throat] in terms of hitting some of the critical infrastructure in Russia. I really think that over the last 3 to 6 months Ukraine is is doing much better and when you look at the amounts of Russians getting killed or seriously wounded we are now reaching numbers of 30 to 35,000.

When you look at the war in Vietnam in 14 years uh the United States lost Russia is now losing in 5 weeks what the United States lost in 14 years in Vietnam. Russia is losing now in 3 weeks what the Russians lost in 10 years in Afghanistan in the 1980s. These are staggering numbers. So, as you saw in the public part of the meeting, the President from acknowledging the fact that Ukraine the Ukrainians are doing so much better.

Also thanks to US support, which is there paid for by the European and Canadian allies. And other key help the US is providing.

Well, as we consider what Ukraine has been able to accomplish in the longer range strikes we are seeing into Russian territory, Secretary General, have any of the NATO allies expressed some concern about that? The idea that it could spark further Russian retaliation and in rope NATO countries into it?

Well, I think we should start by seeing what happened in 2022. By the way, in 2014 when they grabbed Crimea and then in February 2022 when they started the full onslaught on Ukraine. This was unprovoked. There was absolutely no reason for the Russians to do this. So, it's only fair for Ukraine to be able to defend itself and they do this with help from the West. But also because of their own ingenuity. They are extremely successful in constantly updating the drone technology and the anti-drone technology, staying ahead of the Russians and therefore really being successful on the battlefield.

You know, it's really something. We watched you very closely in the Oval Office today, Secretary General. And this went on for quite some time and it was not your first visit, of course, with President Trump. Do you have the playbook now? Did you cook up the recipe? You show up with the goods, a whiteboard, the stats, and a story that the President wants to hear and you might be able to advance your cause.

You know, what I believe is to be fair when leadership is successful. His leadership is successful and what I wanted [clears throat] to show today is the successful in three ways. One on Iran, a deep grain and nuclear capability. Two on NATO, not only getting the allies to deliver to to to commit to 5% defense spending but also to deliver on the spending and that's clearly what is happening at the moment. And third, by taking that that code that mental of being the leader of the free world.

And and when he meets in Ankara, he will meet with all the allies but also 10 countries there as guests from the Middle East, from the Indo-Pacific. A total combined GDP of 70 70 70 trillion dollars, two and a half the size of the United States. Absolutely there to hear his views, to to to get his thoughts on the next steps we collectively have to take.

Mhm. Well, of course the financial aspect of this and the investments into the defense industrial base are one part of it, Mr. Secretary General, but there's also the consideration of actual human capital and US military forces that are currently stationed all around Europe. Obviously, we have now seen withdrawals and considerations this administration is making about moving troops around further. How do you avoid anything being chaotic in nature as that plays out and how does Europe make sure that it's able to adequately defend himself itself in a in a surprise scenario?

What are those preparations like?

I I think the United States is doing that. So, let's first agree that the United States has to take care of multiple theaters, not only Europe, also for example the Indo-Pacific and if a situation would occur where they have to defend both sides of the equation, both the Indo-Pacific and Europe, they have to avoid the situation in which they have spread their resources too thinly. This is why Europeans have to step up.

This is NATO 3.0, a stronger Europe and a stronger NATO. That means that the US will stay involved when it comes to the nuclear umbrella, but also when it comes to the conventional. But over time, what you now will see, and this is a structured process, uh is that the Europeans are taking over more and more of that leadership role. For example, when it comes to the three combatant commands, they will uh over the next 18 to 24 months move from American generals and admirals to Euro

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