AI Agent 选型逻辑与定价陷阱:Canva流失、HubSpot涨价
Our Agents Never Picked Canva. 10 Learnings on Agent Pricing, Getting Picked, and Security From This Week’s “The Agents” With Ulrik Lehrskov-Schmidt
直接揭示了 AI Agent 如何改变 B2B 采购决策机制,并给出了具体的定价陷阱案例与应对策略,创业者可据此调整 GTM 与定价模型。
Amelia and I both canceled Canva this week. I’d been a customer for about 12 years. We weren’t angry at it, and nobody sat down and decided to replace it. Our agents just never had a use for it.
Amelia和我本周都取消了Canva。我曾是它的客户,大约用了12年。我们并没有对它生气,也没有人坐下来决定要替换它。只是我们的Agent们从来不需要用到它。
That happened the same week Canva restructured 22% of the company. Melanie Perkins said in her memo that growth had slowed for the first time in a decade, and back in August Canva had cut its 2026 growth forecast from 30% to 20%.
这件事发生在那一周,当时Canva对公司进行了22%的重组。Melanie Perkins在她的备忘录中表示,增长十年来首次放缓;早在8月,Canva就将2026年的增长预测从30%下调至20%。
So this week’s episode of The Agents covered what it means when agents choose the vendors, why “charge for AI” is turning into “screw your base” at a lot of companies, and what we learned when 10K helped close a six-figure deal and two of our agents decided I’m the bottleneck. Our guest was Ulrik Lehrskov-Schmidt, founder of Willingness to Pay. His Copenhagen shop has run 200+ B2B pricing projects, and his new book, The AI Pricing Roadmap, comes out December 1.
因此,本周《The Agents》节目探讨了当Agent选择供应商时意味着什么、为什么许多公司中的“为AI收费”正演变成“搞砸你的基础业务”,以及当10K帮助敲定一笔六位数的交易且我们的两名Agent决定我是瓶颈时,我们学到了什么。我们的嘉宾是Willingness to Pay的创始人Ulrik Lehrskov-Schmidt。他在哥本哈根的公司已执行了200多个B2B定价项目,他的新书《The AI Pricing Roadmap》将于12月1日出版。
The short version:
简而言之:
- Agents pick vendors once and then stop looking. If you weren’t picked early, a better product later may not get you back in.
- Canva and Figma fell into the same trap: too worried about token costs to ship something competitive, and not confident enough in it to charge real money.
- HubSpot’s new credit model roughly triples the bill for a small marketing team. Raising prices on the base is not a strategy for slowing growth.
- A ~$30M ARR portfolio company launched an agent that doubles ACV. There’s no free version, and 3% of its base adopted in week one. That’s the bar.
- Renewal rates for our $100K+ sponsors went from the 20s to the 70s. 10K says it gets partial credit, and we agree.
- Autonomous agents talking to other agents is very powerful, and it will produce plenty of mistakes before anyone gets the permissions right.
- Agent们只挑选一次供应商,然后就停止寻找。如果你没有在早期被选中,后来更好的产品可能也无法让你重新入选。
- Canva和Figma陷入了同样的陷阱:因过于担心Token成本而未能推出有竞争力的产品,又因对自身产品不够自信而不敢收取真金白银的费用。
- HubSpot的新积分模型使小型营销团队的账单大致翻了三倍。在基础版上涨价并不是遏制增长的战略。
- 一家ARR约3000万美元的投资组合公司推出了一款能将ACV翻倍的Agent。该产品没有免费版,其用户基数在第一周就有3%采用。这就是标杆。
- 我们价值10万美元以上的赞助商的续约率从20%多跃升至70%多。10K表示他们获得了部分功劳,我们也同意这一观点。
- 自主Agent与其他Agent进行对话非常强大,但在任何人正确获得权限之前,会产生大量错误。
1. Our Agents Never Picked Canva, and They Won’t Go Back
1. 我们的Agent从未选择Canva,而且它们也不会再回去
We were both paying $12.95 a month on a legacy Teams plan that Canva doesn’t even sell anymore. What finally got me to log in and cancel was an email saying sales tax would start in the new year. Only then did I notice I hadn’t logged in for about a year.
我们都在使用Canva已不再销售的旧版Teams计划,每月支付12.95美元。最终促使我登录并取消的是收到一封邮件,告知新年开始将征收销售税。直到那时我才注意到,我已经大约一年没有登录过了。
Canva deserves credit for grandfathering us. A real price increase on an app I wasn’t using would have made me cancel even sooner. But if anyone at Canva had checked my account, my MAUs, WAUs and DAUs went to zero a year ago, when I moved to Higgsfield and Reve. I wrote about this kind of “stealth churn” about a year ago. You don’t see it in the dashboard until the renewal date, or until a small email nudges someone to cancel.
Canva值得称赞的是对我们实行了 grandfathering(老用户保留原待遇)政策。如果对我这个未使用的应用进行真正的涨价,我会更早取消。但如果Canva的任何员工检查过我的账户,就会发现我的MAU、WAU和DAU早在一年前当我转向Higgsfield和Reve时就已归零。我在大约一年前写过关于这种“隐形流失”的文章。除非到了续费日期,或者一封小小的邮件提醒某人去取消,否则你在仪表盘上是看不到它的。
Here’s what I think is the bigger lesson for agents. 10K, our AI VP of Marketing, started in January. Amelia was still using Canva a little that month, but she never connected it to 10K. 10K went straight to Higgsfield over MCP for images and video and to Gamma for decks. Canva has an MCP now, and its new image model may be as good as Higgsfield’s for stills. That doesn’t matter anymore.
以下是我认为对智能体(agents)而言更重要的经验教训。10K,我们的 AI 营销副总裁,于一月上线。Amelia 那个月仍在使用 Canva,但她从未将其与 10K 连接。10K 直接通过 MCP 协议对接 Higgsfield 用于图像和视频,并对接 Gamma 用于演示文稿。Canva 现在也有了 MCP,其新的图像模型在静态图片方面可能不输于 Higgsfield。但这已不再重要。
Agents have strong opinions while there’s a problem to solve. 10K pushed hard to get us off Marketo, pushed us onto Resend for a lot of email, and argued firmly against us building our own CRM. Once things work and costs are reasonable, they stop bringing it up. Like a human, an agent won’t propose re-evaluating a vendor that’s working. The difference is that a human might eventually get curious. 10K won’t suggest switching back to Canva unless it hits a real blocker.
在问题待解决时,智能体会持有强烈的观点。10K 极力推动我们将 Marketo 替换掉,大力推荐我们使用 Resend 处理大量邮件,并坚决反对我们自建 CRM。一旦系统运行顺畅且成本合理,它们就不再提及此事。就像人类一样,智能体不会主动提议重新评估一个正在正常工作的供应商。区别在于,人类最终可能会产生好奇。除非遇到真正的阻碍,否则 10K 不会建议我们换回 Canva。
For vendors: the window to get picked is when an agent is first wired into a workflow. After that, you’re competing against an agent that has no reason to look again.
对于供应商而言:被选中的窗口期是智能体首次接入工作流的时候。在此之后,你就是在与一个没有理由再次查看其他选项的智能体竞争。
2. Gamma’s Moat Is Its Rules and Its API
2. Gamma 的护城河在于其规则和 API
We paid for both Canva and Gamma when 10K started. 10K connected to Gamma because it was easier and the features were better. Every week since, that choice has gotten more firmly embedded.
10K 刚启动时,我们为 Canva 和 Gamma 都付了费。10K 选择连接 Gamma,是因为它更简单且功能更好。此后每周,这一选择都变得更加根深蒂固。
Gamma can use our real first-party images and data instead of generating fake ones. It’s built rules for this one use case. They may not call them guardrails, but they have 50 to 80 smart people writing them, and that gives you a much better chance of getting a usable deck on the first try. A horizontal LLM won’t write all those rules for presentations. That holds up for a while, maybe not for years.
Gamma 可以使用我们真实的自有图片和数据,而不是生成虚假内容。它是为这一特定用例构建规则的。虽然他们可能不称之为“护栏”(guardrails),但有 50 到 80 名聪明人在编写这些规则,这使得你在第一次尝试时就获得可用演示文稿的可能性大得多。通用的横向 LLM 不会为演示文稿编写所有这些规则。这在一段时间内依然有效,但可能无法维持数年。
Amelia doesn’t really use the Gamma app. Everything happens in the API tab, headless. With Gamma 5 the API got noticeably better at editing. She used to have to tell 10K explicitly not to overwrite the prior history when updating a sponsor deck for, say, Intercom/Fin. Now it adds new slides, waits for approval before changing old ones, and can add a “what changed since last time” slide. The product is getting better for agents specifically, and that’s the part that keeps you picked.
Amelia 实际上并不使用 Gamma 应用程序。所有操作都在无头模式(headless)下的 API 标签页中进行。随着 Gamma 5 的发布,API 在编辑方面的能力有了显著提升。以前,当更新 Intercom/Fin 等客户的赞助商演示文稿时,她必须明确指示 10K 不要覆盖之前的历史记录。现在,它会添加新幻灯片,在更改旧幻灯片之前等待批准,并且可以添加一张“自上次以来有何变化”的幻灯片。该产品正变得更适合智能体使用,而这正是让你被持续选中的关键。
3. Best of Breed Still Wins Right Now, and That’s Bad for Suites
3. “最佳单品”目前依然胜出,这对套件型产品不利
Through 2022 and 2023 suites won. HubSpot went from marketing automation to CRM to everything, and if it was cost-effective, one vendor was simply easier.
在 2022 年和 2023 年,套件型产品占据了上风。HubSpot 从营销自动化扩展到 CRM 乃至一切,如果具有成本效益,单一供应商显然更容易上手。
AI isn’t there yet. Image generation, video, outbound and marketing automation all have a clearly better tool today, and agents can tell which one it is, or at least believe they can. That leaves a window where a category leader can beat a broad platform. Canva was the suite and lost to the specialists, Gamma on slides and Higgsfield on images.
AI 尚未成熟。图像生成、视频、外联和营销自动化目前都有明显更好的工具,而智能体能够识别出哪一个是最好的,或者至少自以为能识别。这就为品类领导者击败广泛平台留下了窗口期。Canva 曾是套件型产品,但输给了专业细分领域的选手;Gamma 在幻灯片领域,Higgsfield 在图像领域。
Adobe looks like the counterexample. Amelia kept Creative Cloud, at roughly $59 a month for a single seat, because the AI upscaling is very good. She only needs it about two months a year, around SaaStr AI Annual, when images from Gamma, Replit or Higgsfield need upscaling. Her usage is down but she hasn’t stealth churned. The AI features are good enough to justify keeping a suite, and I think that’s why Adobe isn’t seeing Canva-level churn.
Adobe 看起来是个反例。Amelia 保留了 Creative Cloud,单席位月费约 59 美元,因为 AI 超分辨率效果非常好。她每年大约只在 SaaStr AI Annual 前后两个月需要用到它,那时来自 Gamma、Replit 或 Higgsfield 的图像需要进行超分辨率处理。她的使用量下降了,但并没有悄悄流失。AI 功能足够好,足以证明保留一套软件是合理的,我认为这也是 Adobe 没有遭遇 Canva 级别用户流失的原因。
4. Canva Got Stuck Between Token Costs and Gross Margin
4. Canva 陷入代币成本与毛利率的两难境地
Cliff Obrecht, Canva’s co-founder, came on 20VC a while ago, and he got a little prickly when I mentioned Gamma. I didn’t even know Canva did slides. They knew exactly what was happening. No one at these companies is stupid.
Cliff Obrecht(Canva 联合创始人)不久前做客 20VC 节目,当我提到 Gamma 时,他表现得有些敏感。我甚至不知道 Canva 也做幻灯片。他们非常清楚正在发生什么。这些公司里没有人是愚蠢的。
His problem was simple. Gamma could spend close to 100% of its revenue on tokens. Canva, approaching $4B, was expected to hold 75-80%+ gross margins. Matching Gamma or Higgsfield would have pushed those margins toward 50-60%. We watched Figma give up roughly 5 points of gross margin to AI, and the market punished it.
他的问题很简单。Gamma 可以将接近 100% 的收入用于购买代币。而营收接近 40 亿美元的 Canva,预期需保持 75%-80%+ 的毛利率。若要与 Gamma 或 Higgsfield 竞争,其毛利率将被压至 50%-60%。我们曾目睹 Figma 为 AI 让渡了约 5 个百分点的毛利率,结果遭到市场惩罚。
Imagine being at $3B and facing a $500M-a-year OpenAI bill. A large company can’t decide that in an afternoon. Waiting was logical. It was also a mistake. Canva will regret not taking the margin hit 8 to 12 months ago, because the models got so much better this year that the gap is now about product competitiveness, and paying for more inference won’t close it.
想象一下,一家估值 30 亿美元的公司面临着每年 5 亿美元的 OpenAI 账单。大公司不可能在一个下午就做出这样的决定。等待是合乎逻辑的,但这也是一次失误。Canva 会后悔在 8 到 12 个月前没有承受毛利率的损失,因为今年模型进步巨大,现在的差距主要体现在产品竞争力上,花钱购买更多的推理算力也无法弥补这一差距。
No one at OpenAI set out to kill Canva. A year ago we all thought LLMs would wipe out the application layer and build everything themselves. Mostly that hasn’t happened. Claude Design didn’t kill Figma. But if your core use case sits close to what an LLM does natively, you can get hurt by accident. Canva was right in that path.
OpenAI 的人本意并非要搞垮 Canva。一年前,我们都认为 LLM(大语言模型)会清除掉应用层并自行构建一切。大部分情况下这并未发生。Claude Design 并没有搞垮 Figma。但是,如果你的核心用例与 LLM 原生能力高度重合,你可能会意外受伤。Canva 恰好处于这条路径上。
5. HubSpot Roughly Tripled the Bill for a Small Marketing Team
5. HubSpot 将一个小营销团队的账单翻了近三倍
Amelia priced HubSpot’s new model for a small three-person B2B marketing team: 10,000 contacts, a weekly newsletter of about 40,000 emails a month, and about 20,000 workflow actions a month. That’s a startup just out of YC.
Amelia 为一个小型三人 B2B 营销团队评估了 HubSpot 的新定价模型:10,000 个联系人,每周发送一次newsletter,每月约 40,000 封邮件,以及每月约 20,000 次工作流操作。这是一家刚毕业 YC(Y Combinator)的初创公司。
Old pricing: about $1,300 a month, mostly seats (about $800). Actions were unlimited.
旧版定价:每月约 1,300 美元,主要是席位费用(约 800 美元)。操作次数不限。
New pricing (rolled out in October): seats drop to about $300, but everything else is now credits. The 10,000 included credits don’t go far. Total: about $3,700 a month.
新定价(10月推出):席位费用降至约300美元,但其他所有项目现在都按积分计费。包含的10,000个积分并不够用。总计:每月约3,700美元。
Ulrik is a HubSpot customer and got hit with the same numbers. His head of marketing called HubSpot and said the newsletter was leaving. They got a discount. The model charges the same credit for a targeted outbound sequence as for a newsletter send. That suggests it was never tested against the range of things customers actually do.
Ulrik是HubSpot的客户,也遇到了同样的费用情况。他的市场负责人致电HubSpot表示要取消邮件通讯服务,最终获得了一笔折扣。该模型对定向外发序列和邮件通讯发送收取相同的积分费用。这表明该产品从未针对客户实际使用的各种功能范围进行过测试。
更进一步:量化金融体系
看懂新闻只是起点——沿量化金融路径,把它变成能交付的工程能力