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摩根大通:AI基建是繁荣非泡沫,关注收益流与信用风险

AI Buildout is Boom 'Not Bubble,' Says Jared Gross

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提供AI资本开支周期的系统性分析框架与资产配置视角,对理解科技股估值逻辑及高收益债/IG债市场结构有参考价值。

I learned a new term as this paper came out, which is TLDR, which is too long. Didn't read. Oh, and so, uh, we are now required to provide quick summaries of all of these 55 page papers. So I'll try to do my best today to give you that. Uh, yeah. There is an analogy. You know, look, the, the when we look at past capital investment booms, what you see is two paths. One is high competition where these very capitalized businesses compete directly against one another.

随着这篇论文的发表,我学到了一个新术语,即 TLDR(Too Long; Didn't Read,太长不看)。哦,因此,我们现在被要求为所有这些 55 页的论文提供快速摘要。所以今天我会尽力为大家做到这一点。嗯,是的。这里有一个类比。你知道,当我们回顾过去的资本投资热潮时,你会看到两条路径。一条是高竞争路径,这些高度资本化的企业彼此直接竞争。

You you end up with widespread adoption, a lot of innovation, but a lot of disruption. The other path is closer to monopoly. You think about AT&T, Standard Oil. That path does not appear to be where we're heading. It appears that we are in a competitive environment where once the initial enthusiasm and the flood of capital into the buildout peaks, we will start to see greater levels of disruption, which is exactly what the railroads experience revealed.

你最终会看到广泛采用、大量创新,但同时也伴随着大量的颠覆。另一条路径则更接近垄断。想想 AT&T(美国电话电报公司)、标准石油(Standard Oil)。这条路径似乎并不是我们要去的方向。看起来我们正处于一个竞争环境中,一旦初期的热情以及涌入建设浪潮的资金达到顶峰,我们将开始看到更大程度的颠覆,这正是铁路行业经验所揭示的情况。

So the big takeaway for me, Jared, is that you're calling it a boom. Nowhere did I see the word bubble. No, it's not a bubble. I mean, a bubble would imply that there's sort of a fantasy, a level of of expectations. This is a real industry. This is a real economic engine that is going to transform the markets, the economy, society in a lot of ways. Now, that does not mean there are not overvalued companies. That does not mean there won't be firms that go out of business.

所以,对我而言,杰瑞德(Jared),最大的启示是你称之为繁荣。我从未见过“泡沫”这个词。不,这不是泡沫。我的意思是,泡沫意味着某种幻想或期望水平。这是一个真实的行业。这是一个真正的经济引擎,将在许多方面改变市场、经济和社会。当然,这并不意味着不存在估值过高的公司。这也不意味着不会有企业倒闭。

But I is a massive capital investment boom on a scale and pace that we have never seen before. And, you know, the purpose of writing this paper essentially was to step back and look at it from the perspective of asset allocators who are confronted with this wave of capital that is overwhelming a lot of the traditional asset class choices that they have historically used to diversify their portfolios. How can investors use this I investment opportunity to their advantage?

但这是一次规模宏大、速度前所未有的大规模资本投资热潮。而且,撰写这篇论文的目的本质上是为了退后一步,从资产配置者的视角来审视它,他们正面临着这股压倒性地冲击他们历史上用于分散投资组合的传统资产类别选择的资本浪潮。投资者如何利用这一 AI 投资机会来为自己谋利?

I mean, is diversification even a thought within that world you can diversify. So you can diversify, you know, across sort of themes. So one of the things we talk about in the paper is the sequencing. So we're in the build out phase. The benefits largely go to what is often referred to as the picks and shovels, the suppliers, the chip sellers, the data center builders, the energy providers. And that's very much what we're seeing now.

我的意思是,在那个世界里,多元化甚至是一个需要考虑的问题吗?你可以实现多元化。例如,你可以在主题层面进行多元化。我们在论文中讨论的一个内容是顺序问题。所以我们目前处于建设阶段。大部分收益往往流向所谓的“镐头和铲子”,即供应商、芯片销售商、数据中心建设者、能源提供商。而这正是我们目前所看到的景象。

That is largely a public markets phenomenon. Over time, what you will see is more of a, uh, evolution of winners and losers in the provision of AI to end users. That's going to be post IPO model builders and the hyperscalers. And then eventually the technology will disseminate and you're going to see widespread productivity gains globally. I rarely do this, but I have to ask is this going to be available like a McKinsey piece in J.P.

这很大程度上是一个公开市场现象。随着时间的推移,你将看到的是向终端用户提供 AI 的过程中,赢家与输家的演变。这将是 IPO 后的模型构建者和超大规模云服务商。最终技术将得到普及,你会看到全球范围内广泛的生产力提升。我很少这样做,但我必须问:这是否会像麦肯锡在 J.P.

Morgan Asset Management? People can go and find a PDF every student out there. I this is your first read for October. I can't say enough about it. Now you got a Lou Ranieri piece halfway through this and the different and tranches. I'm using it in a broad sense, folks, of the securitization and funding of all the debt that's required. You also have the advantage of Bob Michael and his team in fixed income. And J.P. Morgan, don't tell me this is going to be smooth.

摩根资产管理那样?人们可以找到一份 PDF,那里的每个学生都能找到。这是我十月份的第一篇必读文章。我对它的评价之高无以复加。现在你读到了一半是 Lou Ranieri 的文章以及不同的分层(tranches)。我在这里广泛地使用这个词,指的是所有所需债务的证券化和融资。你还有固定收益领域的 Bob Michael 及其团队的优势。而摩根大通,别告诉我这会一帆风顺。

There's got to be losses taken somewhere, right? There have to be losers. Oh, I think very much so. I think it's almost impossible to imagine AI evolving without a lot of losers. You know, the reality is everyone is competing to win, but they can't all win. You know, right now what you have is this dominance of the suppliers, the picks and shovels. These are all companies that existed before I. They're making a lot of money now selling into AI.

总得有人在某个地方承担损失,对吧?肯定会有输家。哦,我非常同意。我认为几乎无法想象 AI 的发展没有大量输家。你知道,现实是每个人都在竞争以求获胜,但他们不可能都赢。目前的情况是供应商占据主导地位,也就是那些“镐头和铲子”的公司。这些都是 AI 出现之前就存在的公司,它们现在通过向 AI 领域销售产品赚了很多钱。

If I fades away at some point, they will continue to exist. Most likely. The real challenge for them is to judge how much capital investment they want to put into place. Now, to support the AI boom and what how much is too much longer term among the AI providers? The real question is, can they develop sustainable revenue streams that will support not only the cost of the build out, but the ongoing CapEx that's required to maintain the system?

如果 I fades(注:可能指特定实体或泛指)在某一点上消失,它们仍将继续存在。极有可能。对它们来说真正的挑战在于判断要在多大程度上进行资本投资。现在,为了支持 AI 热潮,以及在 AI 提供商中长期来看多少投资才算过多?真正的问题是,它们能否开发出可持续的收入流,以不仅支撑建设成本,还要支撑维持系统所需的持续资本支出(CapEx)?

Okay. But I mean, you do this and it's over. It's out 55 pages, literally on a daily basis. The unit and price mix of that future revenue stream is being analyzed, changed, amended literally on a daily basis. Yeah. I mean, where where do you and your particularly your securities in an analysts feel we're going to be 12 months or 60 months from now on the revenue guess that we're all trying to make. Well, I think directionally the revenue stream is growing because I adoptions.

好的。但我的意思是,你做了这个,它就结束了。每天 literally(字面上/确实)有 55 页的内容。未来收入流的单位和价格组合正在被分析、修改和修订,确实是每天都在进行。是的。我的意思是,你和你的分析师们,特别是你们持有的证券,认为我们在 12 个月或 60 个月后,在我们都在尝试预测的收入方面会处于什么位置?嗯,我认为从方向上看,收入流正在增长,因为采用率(adoptions)在上升。

Yeah. Okay. The unit price of compute is coming down. And that just capped out as well, because you have very low cost Chinese models that are hanging out in the background, you know, and they're starting to see more widespread adoption. They provide essentially a price ceiling for compute in many respects. Now there's always going to be a use case for the more expensive right, higher end model. So but okay, so do you as a journalist, do you see CDs, credit default swap markets and some of the lesser great credit spread?

是的。好的。计算的单位价格正在下降。这也达到了上限,因为有一些成本极低的中国模型在后台运行,你知道的,它们开始被更广泛地采用。它们在许多方面实质上为计算设定了价格天花板。当然,对于更昂贵、定位更高的模型,始终会有应用场景。所以,好吧,那么作为记者,你是否观察到信用违约互换(CDS)市场和一些次要的信用利差?

Widening is healthy and normal in our price discovery of where all this debt's going, given the revenue mystery that we have. Yeah. Well, one of the a lot of the debt is being issued by the hyperscalers. And so what you have to recognize is the initial conditions for the hyperscalers were an incredibly strong revenue stream and balance sheets that were essentially pristine to a degree that we've almost never seen before.

在我们发现这些债务去向的价格发现过程中,由于我们面临收入的不确定性,利差的扩大是健康且正常的。是的。嗯,很大一部分债务是由超大规模云服务商发行的。因此,你需要认识到,超大规模云服务商的初始条件是极其强劲的现金流和几乎 pristine(完美无瑕)的资产负债表,其程度是我们以前几乎从未见过的。

So they have a lot of capacity to issue debt without really taking on a tremendous amount of credit risk. And within the investment grade market, there's been some hand-wringing about the rapid growth of IgG hyperscalers debt as a component of the market. But the truth is, you can easily just look at that as a source of diversification. This is a new sector of high quality issuers that is taking its place among other traditional borrowers.

因此,它们拥有大量发行债务的能力,而无需承担巨大的信用风险。在投资级市场中,人们曾对 IGG(此处指代前文提到的 hyperscalers,即超大规模云服务商)债务在市场中的占比迅速增长感到担忧。但事实是,你可以轻松地将这视为多元化的来源。这是一个新兴的高质量发行人板块,正与其他传统借款人并肩立足。

And so, you know, when you step back and look at the IG market, we don't see the level of credit spreads as being particularly concerning. Now there are individual names where spreads have widened materially. I think you have to be a little more careful in some specific cases. This is why you engage in active management and do the better research. You got to have the boots on the ground to know what you're looking at.

因此,当你退后一步审视投资级(IG)市场时,我们认为当前的信用利差水平并不特别令人担忧。当然,确实存在一些个券的利差出现了显著扩大。我认为在某些特定情况下需要更加谨慎。这正是你进行主动管理并进行更深入研究的原因。你必须深入一线,才能清楚自己面对的是什么。

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