NHL球队ETF申请引关注：体育与ETF融合趋势
Can You Put Sports Into an ETF Yet? | Trillions
Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts radio news. This is basically betting on how well the team is going to do. So in a way it's like it's just like sports betting but betting on the strength of these teams. I think looking at it through the lens of like stock picking essentially you're basically just team picking here.
彭博音频工作室播客电台新闻。这基本上是在押注团队的表现如何。所以从某种程度上说，这就像体育博彩，但赌的是这些团队的强弱。我认为通过选股的视角来看，基本上你就是在选团队。
Welcome to Trillions. I'm Joel Weber.
欢迎收听《Trillions》。我是乔尔·韦伯。
I'm Aanasio Sarah Vegas. There are a bunch of new ETF filings this year that have been all about sports. And now there's even more. There's some new research from Bloomberg Intelligence about volatility shares, which is filed for 32 funds using CME futures that will be linked to official NHL performance data. 32 funds because there are 32 teams in the NHL. Every team could potentially have its own ETF. Hope you like hockey.
我是阿纳西奥·萨拉·维加斯。今年有一批新的ETF申请，全都与体育相关。现在还有更多。彭博情报有一项关于波动率股票的新研究，该研究申请了32只基金，使用CME期货，将与NHL官方表现数据挂钩。32只基金是因为NHL有32支球队。每支球队都可能拥有自己的ETF。希望你喜欢冰球。
But that's not all. This year, we're seeing this convergence of the sports world and the ETF universe. One biggie to watch, prediction market ETFs, which were filed earlier this year. We've talked about them on previous episodes if you want to go deeper. One that we haven't talked about as much, another sports related ETF filing with its own unique twist, the subversive allseason sports ETF, which is an actively managed exchange traded fund that aims to basically just win a bunch of sports bets.
但这还不是全部。今年，我们看到体育界和ETF领域的融合。一个值得关注的大事件是预测市场ETF，这些在今年早些时候提交了申请。我们之前在节目中讨论过这些，如果你想深入了解的话。我们讨论得不多的是另一个与体育相关的ETF申请，它有自己独特的转折，即颠覆性的全季节体育ETF，这是一只主动管理的交易所交易基金，旨在基本上赢得一系列体育博彩。
Nothing is actually approved yet here. These are all just filings, but clearly sports betting and prediction market apps have shown ETF issuers what can happen when you do this space. Well, the question though is also why I do this in an ETF. Eric Baltunis is off for this episode. So, we've tapped one of our favorite ETF regulars on Trillians, Athanasios, Saraphagus. He's an analyst [music] with Bloomberg Intelligence on Eric's team.
目前还没有任何东西获得批准。这些都只是申请，但显然体育博彩和预测市场应用已经向ETF发行商展示了在这个领域可以发生什么。不过，问题也是为什么我要在ETF中做这个。埃里克·巴尔图尼斯这一集缺席。所以，我们请来了我们在《Trillions》中最喜欢的ETF常客之一，阿萨纳西奥斯·萨拉法格斯。他是彭博情报埃里克团队的分析师[音乐]。
We'll be filling in for him. Ethan, pleasure to have you back on Trillions. [music]
我们将代替他。伊桑，很高兴你回到《Trillions》。[音乐]
Thanks for having me back on. This time on Trillians, the sports conversions. So, Ethan, one of the things that's been happening with ETFs this year has been a number of filings that are all sports related, and we've talked about a little bit of that before, but now there's a whole new uh range of filings that just hit. So, I want to discuss those with you today, as well as the rest of the the space. What's in these newest filings?
感谢你再次邀请我。这次在《Trillions》上，我们讨论体育转换。所以，伊桑，今年ETF领域发生的一件事是许多与体育相关的申请，我们之前讨论过一点，但现在有一整批新的申请刚刚提交。所以，我今天想和你讨论这些，以及这个领域的其他部分。这些最新的申请里有什么？
So, these new ones, basically, think about it like stock picking, but you can actually bet on an NHL team. And it's not like betting if they're going to win or lose a game. It's literally betting on the strength of the team. So, if you think like the Rangers are going to have a good year, you can actually buy the Rangers ETF. Basically,
所以，这些新产品，基本上，可以把它想成是选股，但你可以真的押注一支NHL球队。而且这不是赌他们某场比赛的输赢，而是纯粹赌球队的实力。所以，如果你觉得游骑兵队今年会表现不错，你实际上可以买入游骑兵队的ETF。基本上，
you have to care about the NHL first of all. That's the prerequisite.
首先你得关心NHL，这是前提条件。
Yeah, you definitely need to know your know about hockey. uh which I adittly don't know that much about hockey, but these they picked these because there's already some futures that launch on the CME that are tied to these. And I think if these do well, we likely could see the other leagues come in, NBA and NFL. But this is what they're starting with. 32 different ETFs, 32 different teams. Uh again, it's sort of just looking at the team like you're looking at a stock, their roster, maybe, you know, with their schedules coming up, you know, if they have momentum, all that. and you can just bet on it or you can even short it, right?
是的，你肯定得懂冰球。呃，我承认我对冰球了解不多，但他们选这些是因为CME上已经有了一些与这些相关的期货产品。而且我觉得如果这些表现好的话，我们很可能会看到其他联赛也加入进来，比如NBA和NFL。但这是他们起步的选择。32个不同的ETF，32支不同的球队。呃，再说一次，这就像是把球队看作一只股票，看他们的阵容，也许，你知道，看他们接下来的赛程，看他们有没有势头，所有这些。你可以直接押注，甚至可以做空，对吧？
So, let's say you like the Rangers but hate the the Conucks or so you can you can actually just short uh you play different spreads. But yeah, it's this convergence of sports betting and ETFs that it's now sort of all coming together. Okay, Aan, what's actually in this ETF? I mean, these are filings, right? So, nothing's real yet, but like what would you own if you were to purchase a share of this?
所以，假设你喜欢游骑兵队但讨厌加人队，那你实际上可以直接做空，或者玩不同的价差。但没错，这就是体育博彩和ETF的融合，现在算是走到一起了。好的，Aan，这个ETF里到底有什么？我的意思是，这些只是申报文件，对吧？所以，一切都还没成真，但如果你要买一股这个，你会拥有什么？
I know I think you own nothing, right? Because um what's interesting there are stocks out there that you could buy shares in a sports team, right? Like Manchester United or the Braves even. So you're actually like have claimed to ticket sales and things like that and you could benefit from
我知道，我觉得你什么都不会拥有，对吧？因为有趣的是，市面上有一些股票，你可以买入一支体育队的股份，对吧？比如曼联，甚至勇士队。所以，你实际上可以说拥有门票销售之类的权益，你可以从中受益，
like revenue that you can capture.
比如你能获得的收入。
Totally. So if the team does well or you even buy stock in MSG, right? And then that's not just the Knicks, but if they do well and ticket sales go up, you have a piece of that. This is basically betting on how well the team is going to do. So in a way it's like it's just like sports betting but betting on the strength of these teams. So if you like you know changes they made in the offseason or if you think they have a weak schedule coming up you can actually buy the team that you like.
完全正确。所以，如果球队表现好，或者你甚至买入MSG的股票，对吧？那不只是尼克斯队，但如果他们表现好，门票销售上升，你就能分一杯羹。这基本上就是赌球队会表现得多好。所以，在某种程度上，这就像体育博彩，但赌的是这些球队的实力。所以，如果你喜欢，你知道，他们在休赛期做的调整，或者你觉得他们接下来的赛程很轻松，你实际上可以买入你喜欢的球队。
I think looking at it through the lens of like stock picking essentially basically just team picking here.
我觉得从选股的角度来看，这基本上就是选队。
What what do we need to know about futuresbased ETFs? I think one thing to think about with these is illi liquidity, right? Like if they're not going to be really popular, uh, you know, how how the, you know, how market makers going to handle these. Two, what happens like the off season, right? So, you know, they don't play.
关于基于期货的ETF，我们需要了解些什么？我觉得要考虑的一点是流动性问题，对吧？如果它们不会特别受欢迎，那么做市商要怎么处理这些呢。第二，休赛期会发生什么，对吧？所以，你知道，它们就不活跃了。
Stanley Cup, what's what's going down?
斯坦利杯，接下来会发生什么？
So, you know, obviously there's news that comes out, there's trades and they couldn't move in that, but it's going to be a couple months of it just doing nothing.
所以，你知道，显然会有新闻出来，有交易发生，它们无法应对，但会有几个月的时间它们几乎毫无动静。
Uh, and then obviously with futures, there's roll costs. These are going to roll every month. They're going to reset at the end of the season. So there there's spreads in there that you have to know or or be cognizant of. But that said, I honestly don't know how these will behave. This is literally a new area of the market. So, you know, how someone might hedge this, how it might be formed. Maybe just the bigger team ones have more interest in some of the smaller ones.
嗯，然后显然对于期货，有展期成本。这些每个月都会展期。它们会在赛季结束时重置。所以其中存在价差，你需要了解或意识到。但话虽如此，我真的不知道这些会如何表现。这确实是市场的一个新领域。所以，你知道，有人可能会如何对冲这个，它可能会如何构建。也许只是大球队的那些会有更多兴趣，而小球队的则少一些。
But yeah, it's definitely going to be pretty interesting to see how these uh
但是，是的，看看这些会如何发展，肯定会很有趣。
it also seems kind of complicated. Like why not just use a bookie or a sports betting app or a prediction market app, you know, like what why why do we need an ETF for this?
这看起来也挺复杂的。比如为什么不用博彩公司或体育博彩应用或预测市场应用呢，你知道，为什么我们需要为此搞个ETF？
Yeah, I we we debate this on the team all the time. And normally when you think about the success of an ETF, it's because it's made something easier, right? It's giving you access to crypto or bonds in Latin America or something like that. I use the Cali app, right? And it's very, very easy. It's very seamless. You can easily fund it. You can have all sorts of different bets. I read through this methodology document of these NHL ETFs and there's 55 different inputs.
是的，我们团队里经常讨论这个。通常当你想到一个ETF的成功，是因为它让某件事变得更简单了，对吧？它让你能接触到加密货币或拉丁美洲的债券之类的。我用Cali应用，对吧？它非常非常方便。非常流畅。你可以轻松充值。你可以进行各种不同的投注。我读了这些NHL ETF的方法论文件，里面有55个不同的输入项。
So, basically
所以，基本上
55. It's crazy.
55个。太疯狂了。
What are what do they count as input?
他们算作输入项的是什么？
There's like in intragame stats. So, like basically if there's a penalty, right? or how many goals your team scores, how many blocks your goalie has, all that impacts the the score. Then there's sort of end of month stats, how many are they on a win streak, right? All these things sort of factor in. So it's very very complicated. Some of the things that I think about is like, well, a lot of times when the game is on, the market's closed, right?
有比赛内的统计数据。所以，基本上如果有犯规，对吧？或者你的球队进了多少球，你的守门员有多少次封堵，所有这些都会影响得分。然后还有月末的统计数据，他们连胜了多少场，对吧？所有这些因素都会计入。所以这非常非常复杂。我想到的一些事情是，比如，很多时候比赛进行时，市场是关闭的，对吧？
And something with like Koshei, that's always continuously running, right? 24 hours a day, you can bet during the games. I feel like when you're watching a game, you want to maybe make bets in that moment. This is a little bit harder with the ETF. So, this is maybe a longer term play if you think this
还有像Koshei那样的东西，一直在持续运行，对吧？一天24小时，比赛期间你都可以下注。我觉得当你在看比赛时，你可能想在那时下注。这对ETF来说有点难。所以，这可能是一个更长期的玩法，如果你认为这
like a die hard fan.
像一个铁杆粉丝。
Yeah, exactly. If you really love
是的，没错。如果你真的热爱
Yeah. And you just you buy the jersey and you buy the ETF. I guess [laughter]
是的。然后你就买球衣，买ETF。我想[笑声]
maybe the maybe the shares of of the ETF come with jerseys that you buy.
也许ETF的份额会附带你买的球衣。
That's actually a pretty good selling point. I would [laughter] buy an ETF just for the jersey.
这其实是个不错的卖点。我会[笑声]为了球衣买ETF。
We're going to be in the merch business, but also in investment management. So why why the NHL again? Is this just because CME has some hockey heads and decided to do some futures for the NHL?
我们要做周边生意，但也要做投资管理。那为什么又是NHL？这只是因为CME有一些冰球迷，决定为NHL做期货吗？
That's a good question. I don't know. I'm thinking it was probably easier to get a licensing agreement with the NHL versus the NBA and in the NFL. Also, the hockey season's pretty long. I know MLB is longer, but I think they had to start with a season that's r
这是个好问题。我不知道。我想可能是与NHL达成许可协议比与NBA和NFL更容易。而且，冰球赛季相当长。我知道MLB更长，但我认为他们必须从一个赛季开始，这个赛季是r
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