华尔街周报:通胀与债务、全球贸易改道、私募股权承压
Wall Street Week | Inflation Meets Debt, Rerouting Global Trade, Private Equity Tested
David Westin: This is "Wall Street Week." I'm David Westin bringing you stories of capitalism. The world is focused on the Strait of Hormuz. What about the other shipping choke points at risk and what can be done before there is a crisis? Private equity has been the source of market beating returns for years. But now the spread has come down and getting your money out can be a problem. Cuba is facing yet another economic crisis in no small part because of U.S. sanctions.
大卫·韦斯汀:这里是《华尔街周刊》。我是大卫·韦斯汀,为您带来资本主义的故事。世界关注霍尔木兹海峡。其他面临风险的航运咽喉要道情况如何?在危机发生之前又能做些什么?私募股权多年来一直是超越市场回报的来源。但现在利差已经收窄,而且退出资金可能成为问题。古巴正面临又一场经济危机,很大程度上是因为美国的制裁。
President Trump says he's going to make sure the country finally opens up its economic system. We've heard this story before. Could this time truly be different? But we start with the bond market caught between fears of inflation and long term fiscal risks. Rick Rieder is BlackRock's chief investment officer of global fixed income and head of the global allocation investment team. Rick, we got CPI numbers this week and there was good news in the fact that they're not going up.
特朗普总统表示,他将确保国家最终开放其经济体系。我们以前听过这个故事。这一次真的会有所不同吗?但我们从债券市场开始,它夹在通胀担忧和长期财政风险之间。Rick Rieder是贝莱德全球固定收益首席投资官兼全球配置投资团队主管。Rick,本周我们得到了CPI数据,好消息是它们没有上升。
On the other hand, it's not 2.0 the way we've been promised. So which is more important, the good news or the bad news? -Well, I will say markets have been more nervous about this number and I would think there was a collective industry-wide sigh of relief when this number came out because it wasn't, you know, this is one of those numbers if it comes in high, then all of a sudden now you put the Fed in clear hiking mode and you're starting to see consistent numbers, so if you go back into the last 10 numbers that we've gotten in core CPI, 8 of the 10 have been .2 rounded or below that.
另一方面,它不像我们被承诺的那样是2.0。那么哪个更重要,好消息还是坏消息?-嗯,我要说市场对这个数字一直比较紧张,我想当这个数字出来时,整个行业都松了一口气,因为它不是,你知道,这是那种如果数字偏高,就会突然让美联储进入明确加息模式,并且你开始看到持续一致的数字,所以如果你回顾我们得到的最近10个核心CPI数据,其中8个是0.2或更低(四舍五入后)。
So it's still a bit elevated relative to where the Fed's long term objective is. But I think the markets felt pretty good about "We got through it and it wasn't that high." And then if you go through the component parts, although it was a number pretty close to expectations in almost every regard, you are seeing still things like lodging away from home, hotel, airlines, you're seeing in leisure experiences, think about the World Cup effect and otherwise, you're still seeing some pricing pressure around that.
所以相对于美联储的长期目标,它仍然有点偏高。但我认为市场对“我们挺过来了,而且它没有那么高”感觉良好。然后如果你看组成部分,尽管这个数字几乎在所有方面都接近预期,你仍然会看到像外出住宿、酒店、航空公司,在休闲体验中,想想世界杯效应等等,你仍然看到一些定价压力。
But, overall, I would say it was an OK number. But, yeah, we're not, certainly not at target yet. Westin: So pull back a little bit and give us a longer term view over the years of how it's bounced around and where we are today compared to where we've been. -So, I mean, the big deal for me is the Fed's mandate is price stability. It's not 2. But you'd like to get it. There is real efficacy around 2 percent is a normalized equilibrium for what an economy should run at.
但总的来说,我认为这个数字还可以。但是,是的,我们当然还没有达到目标。Westin:所以稍微回顾一下,给我们一个更长期的视角,看看这些年来它是如何波动的,以及我们今天所处的位置与过去相比如何。-所以,我的意思是,对我来说最重要的是美联储的使命是价格稳定。不是2%。但你希望达到2%。2%左右确实有效,它是一个经济应该运行的正常均衡水平。
So you want to get to that number. We haven't gotten there in a long time. By the way, you could take the two decades before it's pretty hard to get it as high as 2. You're in the ballpark today. And, you know, when you were running, and certainly post-COVID, you're running at numbers 5, 6, that was scary. But if you look at inflation expectations and anything about where we've come from, it's pretty stable particularly when you've got an economy that's running with a lot of debt on it that the thing you really can't have happen, you can't have a deflating dynamic because it enhances the true cost of the debt.
所以你想达到那个数字。我们很久没有达到过了。顺便说一句,你可以看看之前的二十年,很难达到2%那么高。你今天就在这个范围附近。而且,你知道,当你运行的时候,尤其是在疫情后,你运行在5%、6%的水平,那很可怕。但如果你看看通胀预期以及我们走过的路,它是相当稳定的,特别是当你的经济背负着大量债务运行时,你真正不能发生的事情是通缩动态,因为它增加了债务的实际成本。
Today I would argue it's a number we'd like to see a little bit lower, but it's certainly not daunting by any stretch relative to anything we've seen in history. Westin: So take COVID out of it for a moment. Go back to, like, 2024, for example. Where are we in core? What's the trend line? -Yeah. So, you know, the thing I find interesting is Chairman Warsh is focused on the left side of the decimal place in the right.
今天我会说这是一个我们希望看到稍微低一点的数字,但相对于我们历史上见过的任何情况,它绝对不令人畏惧。Westin:所以暂时不考虑疫情。回到比如2024年。我们的核心在哪里?趋势线是什么?-是的。所以,你知道,我觉得有趣的是沃什主席关注的是小数点左边的部分。
And I think you have to take that to heart. Meaning if you're in and around the twos, you're OK. But when you actually zoom in closer where the markets tend to focus on, there's this been this maniacal focus on that right side. And, you know, since, you know, certainly over the last year or so, the trend is pretty good and that it's coming down, but it moves around. And, you know, the markets tend to focus on the 10ths of a percent in terms of these movements.
我认为你必须认真对待这一点。意思是如果你在2%左右,你就没问题。但当你真正放大到市场往往关注的更近处,对小数点右边有着狂热的关注。而且,你知道,当然在过去一年左右,趋势相当不错,它在下降,但它会波动。而且,你知道,市场往往关注这些变动的十分之一百分点。
By the way, I always get a kick out of the first thing I saw this morning while Chairman Warsh talked about the left side of the decimal place and the number was it printed at .2, 1, 5, 4. And people talk about the rounding, you think about, for a broad economy like this, does anybody really care about the point? Other than the market participants do. So, you know, part of whether when you zoom out and you say, "OK, that's a pretty good, we're in a pretty good place, would like to see a trend lower."
顺便说一句,我今天早上看到的第一件事总是让我觉得好笑,沃什主席谈到小数点左边的部分,数字是0.2、1、5、4。人们谈论四舍五入,你想,对于这样一个广泛的经济体,真的有人在乎那一点吗?除了市场参与者。所以,你知道,当你缩小范围并说“好吧,那相当不错,我们处于一个相当不错的位置,希望看到趋势下降”时,这是其中的一部分。
For me, I actually think we are trending a bit lower. We think Core PCE by the end of the year is around 2.8. Next year we think it gets to 2.5. And Core CPI is running lower than that. Core CPI is running at 1.6. The last six months, 2.4. When you strip shelter out, it's actually running at about half that. So not bad. I'm pretty relaxed about where we are. There are other things I worry about. But, you know, I don't think that's going to be the thing that disrupts the markets.
对我来说,实际上我认为我们正趋于更低。我们认为到年底核心PCE大约在2.8。明年我们认为会达到2.5。而核心CPI运行得更低。核心CPI目前为1.6。过去六个月为2.4。如果剔除住房,实际运行大约只有一半。所以还不错。我对我们目前的情况相当放松。还有其他我担心的事情。但是,你知道,我不认为那会是扰乱市场的事情。
Westin: And in fairness to some of the commentators and analysts, I understand Chair Warsh has said we care about what's left of it. He also has said we're not done yet. I mean, if he really is just happy with the left side and given the numbers you just gave us, he would say, mission accomplished, job done. -So I think there's a real nuance to that. I think the Fed, what the Fed needs to accomplish is get to that 2 percent number, but that 2 percent doesn't have to happen today.
韦斯汀:公平地说,对于一些评论员和分析师,我理解沃什主席说过我们关心剩下的部分。他也说过我们还没有完成。我的意思是,如果他真的对左侧感到满意,并且考虑到你刚才给出的数字,他会说,任务完成,工作结束。所以我认为这其中有真正的细微差别。我认为美联储需要实现的是达到2%这个数字,但那个2%不必今天就实现。
It doesn't have to happen next week. It's that is a long run number. And I think, quite frankly, if you are any head of any monetary policy authority, you have to be committed to that 2 number. The long end of the yield curve every tick of it is dependent on how you articulate that thesis in terms of where you're trying to get to. It doesn't mean you have to raise rates to get there. And I think why these task forces are a very elegant way to get there.
不必下周实现。那是一个长期数字。而且我认为,坦率地说,如果你是任何货币政策当局的负责人,你必须致力于那个2%的目标。收益率曲线的长端,每一个跳动都取决于你如何阐述你试图达到的目标。这并不意味着你必须加息才能达到。而且我认为,这些工作组是实现这一目标的非常优雅的方式。
These are complex issues. When people ask, are you restrictive or not? Well, in housing you're not. You're clearly restrictive. You have a dormant housing market. But then you look at the amount of spend on CapEx, like, that's, you were not restricted that. But you think about what would you have to move rates for the big hyperscalers not to spend on A.I. You'd have to raise hundreds of base points to get your IRR to a level that didn't make sense.
这些都是复杂的问题。当人们问,你是紧缩的还是不是?嗯,在住房方面,你不是。你显然是紧缩的。你有一个休眠的住房市场。但再看看资本支出上的花费,比如,那方面你并没有受到限制。但想想你必须将利率调整到什么程度,才能让大型超大规模企业不在人工智能上花钱。你必须提高数百个基点,才能让你的内部收益率达到一个不合理的水平。
So I think he is committed to it. I think he's going to think about the tools. You have the balance sheet. You have the money supply. You have a lot of things, a lot of tools at your disposal. Raising the overnight funds rate, in my mind, is not terribly effective way to bring that number down. And I think, I think if you really think about a sophisticated way, which I think they will, what are the tools and how do we get there, and what's the time frame to try and achieve it.
所以我认为他致力于此。我认为他会考虑工具。你有资产负债表。你有货币供应。你有很多东西,很多工具可供你使用。提高隔夜基金利率,在我看来,并不是降低那个数字的有效方式。而且我认为,如果你真的考虑一种复杂的方式,我认为他们会这样做,有哪些工具,我们如何达到目标,以及尝试实现它的时间框架是什么。
Westin: So you say the long end of the curve really needs to believe the Fed monetary authorities. If you look at what happened with the 30 year yield during and after that news conference, they were not buying it. It went up to the highest limits it's been, what? Since 2007 or something. -So I think it's a, you're dead right. I think there are a couple of things to think about there. One, you know, he didn't say hike.
Westin:所以你是说,曲线的长端确实需要相信美联储的货币当局。如果你看看在那次新闻发布会期间及之后30年期收益率发生了什么,他们并不买账。它涨到了最高点,是什么时候?大概是2007年或更早吧。-所以我认为,你说得完全正确。我觉得这里有几件事值得考虑。第一,你知道,他没有说加息。
And I think the markets, the back end of the curve was, like, we could get a hike here which would obviously show maybe a stronger near term commitment to inflation. So there was a little bit of that. Second thing that I think proved it to be a bit untethered was this idea of gosh, we didn't hear a lot of the metrics. Markets want to hear the reaction function. And how are you going to interpret data and then how will you react to it.
而且我认为市场,曲线的后端,就像是在说,我们这里可能会加息,这显然会显示出对通胀更强烈的短期承诺。所以有一点这样的因素。第二件我认为证明它有点脱节的事情是,天哪,我们没有听到很多指标。市场想听到反应函数。以及你将如何解读数据,然后你将如何应对它。
I don't think you need more forward guidance. I think, actually, pulling back on forward guidance is a good idea. I don't agree with the ethos that people put out there that less forward guidance means more volat
我认为你不需要更多的前瞻性指引。实际上,我认为缩减前瞻性指引是个好主意。我不同意人们提出的那种观点,即更少的前瞻性指引意味着更多的波动性。
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