印度电力需求激增,AI数据中心成新增长点
Can India Meet AI’s Power Demands? | Emerging
What if I told you that every few years India's power demand grows by the equivalent of an entire European country? And that's only the beginning. Over the next five years, India is expected to add as much electricity demand as Germany consumes in an entire year. And then comes the next big customer. Artificial intelligence. Electricity demand from data centers is expected to increase at least tenfold by 2030. My guest today are Praveer Sinha the CEO and managing director of Tata Power, India's largest private sector electricity company.
如果我告诉你,每隔几年印度的电力需求增长量就相当于整个欧洲国家,你会怎么想?而这仅仅是开始。未来五年,印度预计增加的电力需求将相当于德国一整年的消费量。然后,下一个大客户来了——人工智能。到2030年,数据中心的电力需求预计将至少增长十倍。今天的嘉宾是塔塔电力(印度最大的私营电力公司)的首席执行官兼董事总经理普拉维尔·辛哈。
Already, nearly 40 gigawatt to 50 gigawatt of solar power is not being scheduled. Uh, we need to come out of that curtailment mainstream and have 100% because after all, you are generating power. It's pure money which is being wasted, pure energy which is being wasted. And Mohit Bhargava, country director at the India Energy and Climate Center at the Goldman School of Public Policy at UC Berkeley. Mohit previously led the green energy arm of NTPC, which is India's largest state owned power company.
目前,已有近40至50吉瓦的太阳能发电未被调度。我们需要摆脱这种限电常态,实现100%利用,因为毕竟你发了电,浪费的是纯金钱,纯能源。还有莫希特·巴尔加瓦,他是加州大学伯克利分校戈德曼公共政策学院印度能源与气候中心的国家主任。莫希特此前曾领导印度最大的国有电力公司NTPC的绿色能源部门。
We need to look at or focus on technologies or sources which are inherently are within our control. So a lot of it will happen when we start decarbonizing the industry. Okay. The big chunk will happen with the I. So here is the question. Can India's power system keep up with the needs of not just households and industry, but the energy demands of the AI economy? I'm Menaka Doshi. Welcome to Emerging, where we dive deep into how the world's most exciting rising economies are shaping the global future.
我们需要关注或聚焦于那些本质上由我们掌控的技术或能源。因此,很多进展将发生在工业脱碳开始之时。好的,大头将随着AI而来。所以问题是:印度的电力系统能否满足不仅家庭和工业,还有AI经济的能源需求?我是梅纳卡·多希,欢迎来到《新兴市场》,在这里我们深入探讨世界上最激动人心的新兴经济体如何塑造全球未来。
Praveer, Mohit, welcome to Emerging. I want to start by asking you about what a crazy summer this has been Praveer. Uh, you know, what did it take to make sure that India kept running through this incredible intensity of heat waves? Uh, such a pleasure to come and talk to you about India's power sector. Uh, as you rightly mentioned, that the capacity in India has been growing at a very fast pace. And just to give you some data points, uh, turn of the century, uh, 2000, we have a just 100 gigawatt. 2010 we were something like 200 plus.
普拉维尔、莫希特,欢迎来到《新兴市场》。我想先问问普拉维尔,这个夏天真是疯狂。你知道,在如此强烈的热浪中,确保印度持续运转需要付出什么?非常高兴能来和你聊聊印度的电力行业。正如你正确提到的,印度的装机容量一直在快速增长。给你一些数据点:世纪之交的2000年,我们只有100吉瓦;2010年,我们大约是200多吉瓦。
And now in 2026, we are at 530 gigawatt. So that's the type of capacity addition that is happening. And the capacity addition is happening because of three reasons. One is that the aspirational India wants to grow and more and more people use electrical equipments and have more electrical gadgets. The second is the the climate change which is happening. And you mentioned about this summer being, uh, uh, extreme heatwaves, temperatures, uh, going up to 50 degrees in many places.
而现在到了2026年,我们已经达到530吉瓦。这就是正在发生的装机容量增长。而装机容量的增长是由三个原因驱动的。一是充满抱负的印度希望增长,越来越多的人使用电气设备,拥有更多的电器。二是正在发生的气候变化。你提到今年夏天极端热浪,许多地方气温高达50度。
And, uh, we are expecting that, uh, the, uh, especially the air conditioning and cooling load will increase over the next 20, 25 years. So India's power growth is something which we see consistently going up, and we expect this to increase now that a lot of data centers and ice centers are coming up and a lot of other, uh, related commercial activity, industrial activity. So I think it's a good issue for India. Uh, Indian industry has done exceedingly well.
而且,我们预计,尤其是空调和制冷负荷将在未来20到25年内增加。所以印度的电力增长是我们看到持续上升的,我们预计这会增加,因为现在很多数据中心和冰中心正在建设,还有很多其他相关的商业活动和工业活动。所以我认为这对印度来说是个好问题。印度工业做得非常好。
Uh, India has added capacity. And I do feel that, uh, the India's power sector, and especially the private sector in India will continue to contribute to a very large extent. Praveer, are you saying that this summer was a breeze? Yeah. Absolutely not. At no point did you feel like. Because it's like you said, whilst temperatures may be, uh, something India is familiar with at 48 degrees or 50°C, uh, the air conditioning demand has been climbing quite rapidly over the last few years.
印度已经增加了装机容量。我确实觉得,印度的电力行业,尤其是印度的私营部门,将继续做出非常大的贡献。Praveer,你是说这个夏天是小菜一碟吗?是的。绝对不是。你从来没有感觉到。因为就像你说的,虽然气温可能是印度熟悉的48度或50摄氏度,但空调需求在过去几年里一直在快速增长。
Right. So did you feel that there was any point in the summer where, uh, it was touch and go, uh, that, you know, we could be facing very large blackouts? Uh, I don't think so. We have enough, uh, reserve capacity with us. And while, you know, for one day it went to two 71 gigawatt has been in the range of about 250 to 260. And, uh, we have been able to cater to that requirement. So it's not that, uh, uh, we are absolutely hand-to-mouth.
对。那么你觉得夏天有没有哪个时刻是岌岌可危的,你知道,我们可能面临大范围的停电?我不这么认为。我们有足够的备用容量。虽然有一天达到了271吉瓦,但一直在250到260左右。而且我们已经能够满足这个需求。所以并不是说我们完全捉襟见肘。
Uh, we have huge capacity ads that have happened in the last few years, uh, daytime, if in fact, we have so much of excess energy many times during the day, the power cost goes down to ₹1. In fact, in some hours it has gone to zero. So I don't think, uh, India is today starved of power. And the way the capacity ads are happening now. Last year we added 55GW. So it's a huge capacity ad that has taken place. Uh, we will be able to cater to the growing need.
我们过去几年有大量的装机容量增加,白天,事实上,很多时候我们有这么多过剩的能源,电力成本会降到1卢比。实际上,在某些时段甚至降到了零。所以我不认为印度今天缺电。而且按照现在装机容量的增加方式,去年我们增加了55吉瓦。所以这是巨大的装机容量增加。我们将能够满足日益增长的需求。
Uh, of course, uh, we need to do the balancing of the generation. Uh, right now, most of it is renewable. But how do you make it from battery storage? Pumped storage? Some of those actions needs to be taken, but I think we are ready to meet the future challenges. That's not something you could have set off to India's power sector, maybe, you know, 15 years ago or 20 years ago, but we've come a long way whilst relying on coal.
嗯,当然,嗯,我们需要平衡发电。嗯,目前大部分是可再生能源。但如何通过电池储能、抽水蓄能来实现?需要采取一些措施,但我认为我们已经准备好迎接未来的挑战。这在15年或20年前对印度电力部门来说是不可能的,但我们在依赖煤炭的同时已经取得了长足的进步。
But I think I want to add one simple point what big demand discussion is happening? You see, the fact is we are very focused on the peak number, which incidentally happens during the daytime. It happened at about 3:30 p.m. the afternoon, and I think 2 or 3 times at around 233, we have had 268 to 70 kind of number. The problem which probably probability may accept is the evening. During the daytime we have almost 100GW of solar coming out of the system, which, as you rightly said, enables surplus power in the daytime.
但我想补充一点,关于正在讨论的重大需求问题。你看,事实是我们非常关注峰值数字,这恰好发生在白天。大约在下午3点30分,我记得在233左右有2到3次,我们达到了268到70这样的数字。可能被接受的问题是在晚上。白天我们有近100吉瓦的太阳能输出,正如你所说,这使得白天电力过剩。
But if we are hitting two 50GW in the evening when the sun is down and wind is very intermittent, we get it only a few months in a year. Then we are actually heavily breathing, because then the entire load has to be met from all the so-called conventional or delegated systems, as you said, coal, hydro, nuclear, whatever there is. And in some cases, what we know is that we have also used gas to meet that requirement. So the larger challenge and and that is something we tend to miss quite often, is the fact that is not the peak demand number during the day, which matters.
但如果在晚上太阳下山、风力非常不稳定的情况下达到250吉瓦,我们一年中只有几个月能获得这样的电力。那么我们实际上会非常紧张,因为那时整个负荷必须由所有所谓的传统或可调度系统来满足,如你所说,煤炭、水电、核电等。在某些情况下,我们知道我们也使用了天然气来满足这一需求。所以更大的挑战,也是我们经常忽视的,是白天的峰值需求数字并不重要。
It's the peak demand during the non-zero hours, which is more relevant because then we have to ensure even if it's two 50GW, that's a huge number to meet. And which is why I think what the government is doing, that they have set out very clear targets, whether it's for coal, nuclear, renewables and hydro also. But the fact remains that is where the gap is. I would put out mine. I can say that if we actually need to do 270 in the evening, that would be something.
重要的是非高峰时段的峰值需求,这更相关,因为我们必须确保即使达到250吉瓦,这也是一个巨大的数字。这就是为什么我认为政府正在做的事情,他们设定了非常明确的目标,无论是煤炭、核能、可再生能源还是水电。但事实是,这就是差距所在。我会提出我的看法。我可以说,如果我们真的需要在晚上达到270,那将是一件大事。
What? Because at 250 meeting, 250 in the evening was a stretch. We had literally every horse running at that point of time. So that's a challenge. But yes, you're right. Uh, India has relied on coal because it's I mean, as far as I say, it's economics. For us, coal was there. Coal is cheap, coal is abundant. So it makes sense. And every country, every geography across the world has done that. So when people, particularly the Western media or the Western, uh, people talk or lecture as if I may use the word on, you know, trying to push coal, All we are trying to do is trying to get whatever is the cheapest source available at 70% cola, right?
什么?因为在250次会议上,250次晚间会议已经很紧张了。那时我们确实让每一匹马都在跑。所以那是个挑战。但你说得对。嗯,印度依赖煤炭是因为,我是说,在我看来,这是经济问题。对我们来说,煤炭就在那里。煤炭便宜,煤炭丰富。所以这是合理的。而且世界上每个国家、每个地区都是这样做的。所以当人们,特别是西方媒体或西方人,谈论或说教,如果我可以这么说的话,试图推动煤炭,我们只是在努力获取最便宜的能源,70%的煤炭,对吧?
Yeah. And but what's important is directionally the government is very clear. We are not saying we will keep on adding coal for eternity. We're also setting very, very ambitious targets for renewables. Government, in fact, also set very ambitious targets for nuclear, which is probably a bit too early to set now. But yes, we need to do that because nuclear also is ultimately clean. But the fact is that coal has been a mainstay and it will remain a very strong pillar going forward.
是的。但重要的是,方向上政府非常明确。我们不是说会永远增加煤炭。我们也在为可再生能源设定非常非常雄心勃勃的目标。事实上,政府也为核能设定了非常雄心勃勃的目标,这现在设定可能有点早。但是的,我们需要这样做,因为核能最终也是清洁的。但事实是,煤炭一直是中流砥柱,未来也将继续是一个非常强大的支柱。
I'll probably not be able to give a number, but 25 years down the line will still have. But I sense that even in 2070 it may not be totally zero. Maybe some coal might still stay, but by then this entire energy supply mix would dramatically reverse to have a much larger share of clean supply into the system. The scale at which we are doing renewables, and of course, at which India is doing renewables, is probably among t
我可能无法给出一个数字,但25年后我们仍然会有。但我感觉即使在2070年,也可能不会完全为零。也许一些煤炭可能仍然存在,但到那时,整个能源供应结构将发生戏剧性的逆转,清洁供应将在系统中占据更大的份额。我们做可再生能源的规模,当然,印度做可再生能源的规模,可能属于最前列之一。
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