比特币用户为何开始关注Zcash隐私币

as a society, if we don't have privacy or private money on the web, we'll in we'll enter dystopia. I think uh biology said it very succinctly uh somewhere else. It's it's Zcash or it's communism. Uh I believe that same thing. And so if crypto is really going to be used as money on the internet as internet money, uh we have to [music] have privacy for agency to be who we truly are for security um and [music] even for censorship resistance.

You can't have censorship resistance without um without privacy

bankless nation. I'm joined by Josh Swehart. He is the founder and CEO of the Zcash Open Development Lab, otherwise called Zodel, which is the new home for what used to be the core engineering product team at the Electric Coin Company, which is kind of like the uh Ethereum Foundation for [music] Zcash, uh where he was previously CEO. Josh, welcome to Bankless.

Thank you for having me on. Josh, why work on Zcash? What motivates you?

I found Zcash in 2016. Um, I was looking for a privacy solution. Zcash hadn't launched yet. And so, somebody else in the crypto ecosystem had said, "I need to check out this project." Um, that this uh that was launching later that year. Um, I had years before I had actually uh built uh systems that did data tracking um situation awareness in the adtech and had um a pretty deep understanding of uh what it meant to have public data exposed.

So, I had built uh an intelligence system uh a long time ago using um satellite imagery, aerial imagery, UAV imagery, extracting data, metadata from that, being able to kind of get a good understanding of what might be happening on the ground. Um and uh the architect of that and I um started working on another project and this was all kind of pre-Cambridge Analytica aggregating data being able to do get a deep understanding of people who they were who their kids were where they lived how much disposable income did they have were they good at their job and we could get a high degree of probability about um people based upon what they were willingly posting online.

So when I found crypto uh when I actually went down the the rabbit hole actually with Ethereum, not Bitcoin initially um in the Ethereum Dow um but I had a need um a friend had a need overseas. I need to be able to send money to them uh and I had been shut down by Western Union. and they were unbanked um based in India and I knew I couldn't use or I felt like I couldn't use Bitcoin because it wasn't private and I was concerned about um someone being able to use that information to be able to dox the person or dox me.

Um and so I went looking I was like well crypto should solve this. I went looking for a privacy solution. uh kind of got involved with the Zcash community in 16 uh formerly joined full-time uh in the community in 18. Trading is changing, not gradually, right now. OKX just launched Trading Bots directly inside the OKX app. Grid trading, DCA arbitrage, you set your strategy once and it executes around the clock. No staring at charts all day, no manual entries, no missing moves while you're asleep.

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Yeah, I've been with Zcash around the ecosystem at least for a decade full-time for more more than eight years. Um so this you know this for me became my life's work. So I was the CEO of another company. uh an owner in the company um since sold it and decided this is what I need to work on uh full-time because as a society if we don't have privacy or private money on the web um we'll we'll enter dystopia. Um I think uh biology said it very succinctly uh somewhere else it's it's zash it's communism.

Uh I believe that same thing where like we have an expectation of privacy or some level of privacy on the internet today. So I can choose to disclose information and it's my choice as to what I disclose. But if I want to make a purchase, I have an expectation that that interaction between that vendor is encrypted. So I'm choosing to disclose some information with that vendor, but I'm not choosing to disclose my credit card information or that purchase with my neighbor or anybody else that may be snooping on the internet.

And so if crypto is really going to be used as money on the internet as internet money, uh we have to have privacy for agency to be tr who we truly are for security. Um and even for censorship resistance, you can't have censorship resistance without uh without privacy. So I think this is uh existential. I think this is not a crypto thing. I think this is a world um I I think it's important for the world and I think Zcash is world changing and I think it's best in class and it's the best chance that we have for humanity to kind of realize that kind of freedom online.

If you just go back to 2016 when you started with Zcasher or just went down the crypto rabbit hole originally. Privacy was said a lot more back then than it was in maybe the 2020 through 2025 era. you know, privacy is making a comeback, especially with the context of AI, but I I think if if you asked me uh when I first got into crypto in 2017, not terribly long after you, uh, and you asked me what crypto would be like in 2025 and beyond, I would have said, "Oh, there would be a ton of privacy."

And I look at crypto now and it's kind of the opposite. Uh, we just did an episode with Ari Redboard from TRM Labs. It's kind of like edge analysis. uh and he talked about how the uh FBI, CIA, OFAC, these uh intelligence agencies are actually kind of into the idea of society moving on chain because it makes their job easier. And you know, one one half of me is like, "Oh, great. Like another another force to push everyone on crypto.

That's great." The other half of me is very scared that if these controlling agencies are happy for finance to move on chain because they get to trace it more that makes me just wonder is like wow what as an industry what have we been do what have we been doing and so that's kind of my like speedrun from 2017 to now is like did you did you going into crypto way back when kind of have similar expectations?

I just fundamentally knew it wasn't private. I think people talked about privacy. I think there was a lot of laring. There probably still is a lot of laring. But um you know the intention with Bitcoin is private. It all came out of you know it came out of the initial crypto wars where we were fighting for online privacy well ahead of cryptocurrency. Um if we grew up in this like I grew up in a world uh that did not have uh the internet.

I mean we had chat boards. BBS ran a bone board system. Um, we could be anonymous or pseudo anonymous in those places, you know, but all

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